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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

Mr Buzzman72,,,

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ChadS

12-14-2004 06:07:29




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Buzzman, can u show me where you found the site for the IH truck engines? Ive been searching, but looking for some engine specifications on the truck series engines,, not the 450or the 501,, but from 221-301. Im in the process of rebuilding one of the truck heads and put it on my 460, I remember you saying something about milling the head is a no no,, just wanted to verify it.. Thank ya! ChadS




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Buzzman72

12-15-2004 05:39:06




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 Re: Mr Buzzman72,,, in reply to ChadS, 12-14-2004 06:07:29  
Chad, I'm not too familiar with how much you can or can't mill off the heads. The sites I deal with are www.oldihc.org, www.binderbulletin.org, and www.justinternationals.org ...hope you can find the info you're looking for there.

Now, the principal thing to look for on these truck sixes is whether the head is a "straight-valve" or a "tilt-valve" head. The "experts" say you can't mix the pistons from one with the head from the other. The old SD-220 and SD-240 were all "straight-valve" engines, and legend says they were more prone to "drop" a valve than the "tilt-valve" engines. Earlier versions of the BD-220, BD-240, and BD-264 were also "straight-valve" engines, but later ones were "tilt-valve"...and there's a question over at www.oldihc.org currently on what year they changed...consensus seems to be around '58-'59, maybe '59-'60. The later BG-221, BG-241, and BG-265 were all "tilt-valve" engines.

A lot of the information I have on the SD engines comes from my L-series truck CTS-11 factory service manual, circa 1950-'51, that I picked up on eBay, as well as the parts amnuals I ahve of the smae general vintage...as well as personal experience, and the advice of "old-timers" even more ancient than me (I'm 50).

Growing up in a family-owned Farmall garage, Dad used a lot of tractor parts on his Binder trucks, and occasionally vise-versa. To keep his lead-footed teenage son under control in Dad's '67 1200-series pickup, he replaced the carb spring with an H brake-return spring...MAN, that took some effort to drive over the speed limit!!![lol...but I wasn't laughing THEN].

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ChadS

12-15-2004 06:59:02




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 Re: Mr Buzzman72,,, in reply to Buzzman72, 12-15-2004 05:39:06  
Buzzman! Thanks again! The head I have is a straight valve head, Im not sure what it came off of. I was looking on oldihc.org, and found some very good info about the truck engines. Yeah, the pistons wont work from the tractor engines vs the trucks, I was thinking of a different desgin for the pistons for the truck head, and using heavier, tractor pistons, Im thinking it might help with torque. Here is what I came up with so far on the C-263 with a truck head. the tractor version, has higher domed pistons, but a really bad cyl head design, very restricted in the ports, due to the tilt valve head, and the compression chamber, due to the cyl head compression chamber casting change, they increased the depth of the chamber, to accomidate firecrater pistons. This caused the port design to be narrowed and more restricted in the ports. the compression chamber is deeper, so the room inthe ports were severly made smaller. The ports in the truck head, well its self explanitiory, way more flow vs a tractor head. you could not port, and polish a tractor head, to match the flow potential of the truck heads in stock form!! They even use the same diameter valve specs from the two heads,, Ive even used a truck valve in a tractor head, so I know they are the same, just different retainer clips,, but way stronger tension springs VS the tractors. Some times,, newer, is not exactly better in this case. Now, onto pistons,, Im goingto make a set of high compression, flat tops, and Im gonna make valve indentions in the tops. Using a 460 gas piston 3-9/16 bore onthe long stroke crank, and recut them to fit the chamber at .010 clearence below the block deck, im looking at 10 to 1 using the truck head. I dont think I wanna go much over 10 to 1,, its hard enough to feed it with a shebler updraft carb, 1.5 throat in the carb. but,, should be a good low rpm torque engine under 3000 rpm. Been thinking of using the 2bbl down draft intake i have for it,, but uh,, rules say not to,,, hahaha! I was figuring,, at 10 to 1,, 263 ci,, it would make 84 hp at 540, 1815 engine rpm, but the torque dont kick in until 2500 rpm, so it is not a hp engine,, its a torque engine, the faster it revs, the more it makes. limits are limits though, and im not gonna over rev it. at 3500 rpm,, it would make 155 hp,, but,, thats 3500 rpms though,,, not gonna rev it that hard. Im rebuilding the truck head, and was thinking I can mill about .100 off and be fine,, just have to keep an eye on the piston/ valve clearences. ChadS

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Buzzman72

12-15-2004 07:41:44




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 Re: Mr Buzzman72,,, in reply to ChadS, 12-15-2004 06:59:02  
Now that you're thinking on the 2-barrel intake...check out the info at www.justinternationals.org on the fuel injection systems...yeah, they're for the V8's, but the science is all the same...a throttle body off a 4.3 GM V6 would approximate a 263/264 IH engine...with the HEI conversion, and somebody to burn you a PROM chip, what you'd have here is a TBI IH six...probabvly open up a new can of worms, but that's kinda where I'm trying to head with the truck motors. Probably looking at a totally different class of puller then, too...


If you could come up with a good slug for the 263/264 with the truck head, it might be something the truck folks would be interested in also...they're always looking for parts that work! In combo with a set of Murphy's rocker arms and some other good equipment, it just might make a setup that would make some of these folks think twice about swapping that 283 into the ol' Binder truck!

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ChadS

12-17-2004 05:35:39




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 Re: Mr Buzzman72,,, in reply to Buzzman72, 12-15-2004 07:41:44  
Buzzman, like I mentioned, gonna recut a set of pistons from a 221 (460) in the 263. The craters in the piston will still be there, and thinking, that the crater will help with flow inside the chamber in the truck head. But will be a higher compression engine VS a stock truck engine. I can cut darn near 1/2 off the tops of the 460 piston,, and still be really thick inthe piston head. Wont know if it all works, till I build it. ChadS

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ChadS

12-15-2004 09:48:41




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 Re: Mr Buzzman72,,, in reply to Buzzman72, 12-15-2004 07:41:44  
Buzzman,, look at the fuel injection system from the early ford 6 cyls that were fuel injected. Most of the technology is there already! distributorless ignition is simple all u need to do is adapt a crank trigger, and then the computer from the car or truck. Been looking at that alot,,,, it could work alot easier with the ford system VS the chevy,, ChadS



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Buzzman72

12-15-2004 07:41:07




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 Re: Mr Buzzman72,,, in reply to ChadS, 12-15-2004 06:59:02  
Now that you're thinking on the 2-barrel intake...check out the info at www.justinternationals.org on the fuel injection systems...yeah, they're for the V8's, but the science is all the same...a throttle body off a 4.3 GM V6 would approximate a 263/264 IH engine...with the HEI conversion, and somebody to burn you a PROM chip, what you'd have here is a TBI IH six...probabvly open up a new can of worms, but that's kinda where I'm trying to head with the truck motors. Probably looking at a totally different class of puller then, too...


If you could come up with a good slug for the 263/264 with the truck head, it might be something the truck folks would be interested in also...they're always looking for parts that work! In combo with a set of Murphy's rocker arms and some other good equipment, it just might make a setup that would make some of these folks think twice about swapping that 283 into the ol' Binder truck!

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AC

12-14-2004 16:04:59




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 Re: Mr Buzzman72,,, in reply to ChadS, 12-14-2004 06:07:29  
I think he was refering to www.oldihc.org...what"s new down your way? any new NIATPA rule changes this year?...AC



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ChadS

12-14-2004 18:56:39




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 Re: Mr Buzzman72,,, in reply to AC, 12-14-2004 16:04:59  
In farm stock,, suitcase weights are allowed, still low gear, Im gonna say they all should have wheelie bars, except the locals,, which still run off the chain. Thats just my opinion, weight classes are back to 1000 increments, 3250-4500, 4501-5500, 5501-6500,6501-7500. Instead of watching the same ol 5 tractors pull over n over again, they threw em all back in the classes with everybody. now when u win a heavy farm stock class, you dont beat 3 other tractors,, you beat about 15-20! There is nothing else to report at this time, more will come later. Ill look around for a pair or rims, mite have something. ChadS

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ChadS

12-14-2004 16:17:53




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 Re: Mr Buzzman72,,, in reply to AC, 12-14-2004 16:04:59  
Howdy AC! snowin there? Ahh,, been building a few things, working on a 450, a 70JD, and the ol 460. 450 is getting a stroker, the 70 is getting an overhaul, the 460, is getting an better engine, so keeping me busy. Hows the H? ChadS



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AC

12-14-2004 16:43:33




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 Re: Mr Buzzman72,,, in reply to ChadS, 12-14-2004 16:17:53  
the H is on a diet...It's easier to hack weight off of it than me!...I am also getting away from those 16" rims. They don't do much for me. You don't have a set of 12" wide pressed steel around do ya? I have sooo much I have to do and it is already new years time....haven't even built weight bars yet....
I'm gonna leave that motor alone right now, I just need to get the chassis balanced. It's a good tractor, but I found a lot of little things I can make better...I'd like to run for points this next year or at least make that OLIVER nervous.....Made a really cool clear governor housing cover...looks cool, and you can watch the gov. move....don't leak, either..I was bored the other day..lol..later..AC

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