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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

New casted MM blocks,

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ChadS

08-05-2005 08:57:56

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Ok guys, Im a IH man bout to start something here,,, I have a question,,, and lets keep it clean and real,,,, ok?? well atleast try,, LOL!! Those new casted MM blocks,,, if you was to have them in a U MM, would NATPA throw you out if you ran them in Division 3? My opinion is that they should not be allowed in a div 3 and under class, due to it being an aftermarket part and was not offered in an agriculture style engine, it is a totally different! There is no casting numbers to show what they are from,,, and honestly, if it is casted aftermarket,, how could they even use a MM casting number, without patent problems?? Our club rules state, that Molines can not use the 800 blocks,, heck,, with the new blocks,, whats the difference?? So, what do you think?? is this more of a div 4 and 5 engine, or should it be allowed in a Factory block div 3 class and under type classes? You MM guys can call me any name u wish ok?? and yeah, Im picking on ya,, But we got em in div 3 classes, and I dont think they should be there!!! Ya dont see M's with aluminum blocks, or heads and be legal,, so why should this be allowed in division 3? Im not talking a national class organization here,, and the fellas that know what I speak of,, dont really have a clue, or dont want to do anything about it,, but, someones getting hosed here,,,, by rules being broken and underworded. See, our club,, wrote the rules atthe time, stated that MM's cant use 800 blocks,, and that was way before the new casted blocks even existed,,, so what does one do??? Cheat, or be cheated? Or, is it cheating? You tell me? ChadS

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apuller1

08-07-2005 20:25:30

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to ChadS, 08-05-2005 08:57:56

if you farmall guys can run 450 propane heads and all that, then why cant a moline guyt run 800 blocks? thats a bunch of bull. moline is getting the shaft. and JD tractors withthe jerry's blocks can run them?..and not molines with the 5.75"?? i don't understand where all these dumb rules come from. put on a speedlimit and a top cut only tire limit, and GOOOOO OOOOO.....and if people are turnin over say 30% rpm, make them have a scatter blanket. we run a stock JD A ate somewheres around 2500 rpm, the one time i looked at with a tach on it.....and its not ballanced or anything....

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moli

08-07-2005 18:20:44

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to ChadS, 08-05-2005 08:57:56

Chads,Im not new to this sport..been here awhile...done alot of watchin...done some pullin too...now i got molines.If i could have built a better puller outa a fartall ida got one...HEY I got an ideah..why ..dont you come to the NY state championship pull , pull whatever ya got...its a money pull,not much money...but hey..if ya dont win i know where thers a junkyard...hell ill even help ya do it...oh im sorry ...you dont need the help....your the GOD of tractor pulling..... .. .

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Yeoman

08-07-2005 19:35:17

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to moli, 08-07-2005 18:20:44

Hey Moli:

If you are going to help him drag his junk off to the car crusher PLEASE be sure and get me those magic miracle monster springs before they are scrap. They are so expensive when priced on this site I cannot afford a new pair. Best, Phil PS: How many loaves of bread does it take to leave a sufficient trail for a crumb to find his way back to Indiana from Locke NY?

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ChadS

08-08-2005 06:20:51

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to Yeoman, 08-07-2005 19:35:17

Hey! I flushed out DR Phil!! LMAO! Where u been hiding at? Phil the magic aint priced on here, its earned. Your just jelous cause MM's dont use em. Yeah, you can correct my spellin if you want. Good to see your still kickin though,, Chad

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Yeoman

08-08-2005 08:47:30

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to ChadS, 08-08-2005 06:20:51

If your machines are so hot why do you care what yellow, green, or purple tractors are doing? Actually, I am not pulling prairie gold right now, and I do like the red ones too. This thing you started, irrefutably, makes one thing very clear. Virtually all of the folks who posted realize that you are a joke. A greedy, bad joke. Is it kosher for you to do whatever you want to win but that others should not? Sounds like a real champion to me. You have, however, again, buttressed Dr Einstein's comment; Stupidity can be infinite, but genius has limits. Best, Phil PS: I won't bother to review your grammer and spelling today, I suspect that you do not know the difference.

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ChadS

08-08-2005 09:48:48

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to Yeoman, 08-08-2005 08:47:30

Now you know why I call you DR.Phil. Being a Champion, is a feeling that never goes away, and is something that has to be earned. No one knows this better than a Champion. I am limited with what I have, but that limit goes sky high with potential. No where did I say I was getting beat by these engines,,, I just had questions, and how is one educated, when they dont ask questions? See, now Im educated on this matter, Sure Stupidity can be infinite, But, being stupid is one thing, being blind is another. Im not greedy,, LMAO thats far from any thing I can ever construct!! My pullers are warmed up, and they can be as hot as fire. And at Denver this Friday, they will see how hot an IH can be. You know what Phil, your still allright in my book, dont care what you pull, its what you put into it. ChadS

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Yeoman

08-08-2005 10:56:48

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to ChadS, 08-08-2005 09:48:48

Posted by ChadS 080805 "...don(')t care what you pull, its what you put into it."

Posted by ChadS 080505 "My opinion is that they should not be allowed in a division 3 and under class..."

Posted by ChadS 080805 "I(')m not greedy,, LMAO thats far from anything I can ever construct!!" Probably a perspective thing; my mistake. There was an IHC M in these parts turning 4Gs. It did not need your silly 97 cent springs which you sell for twenty five or thirty bucks.

Hellooo. (LOL, LMAO, and other ChadS foolishness) Better get that medication checked; dementia could be the next stop. (More LOL LMAO etc etc). So what is the big deal? You mill out a cavern in an H block, glue in a hunk of well casing and that is peachy? But someone else should not achieve similar results buying OEM or aftermarket parts for something else? Probably the biggest tragedy is that you do not get it. Best, Phil

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ChadS

08-08-2005 13:21:38

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to Yeoman, 08-08-2005 10:56:48

Im not going to rephrase what I said Phil,,,, Ill leave that to you. But Ill bet, if this happened in your club, and you had to deal with it, you would be upset as well. Whats the deal you ask? I asked a question, and gave my opinion. Nothing wrong in asking, nor reciving a little insight along the way, good or bad. Another thing is simple,, I dont handle the sales of the springs, nor set prices, if I had it my way, Id throw em out of a 5 gallon bucket while pulling down the track! But, Its not that way sir. I take care of the pulling tractors I have, dyno work, pistons and rods, tractors that come in to have engines built, I tear em down, modify them and put them back together, and tune them. Take a wild guess in what I get paid to do that? I bet you would be shocked to learn that I do it for pennies on the dollar!! You think 25 bucks is expencive,,, think about all the ones who bought a dennys kit and and got 55-60 hp tops, and then, they call me to ask, why dont it have the power he said it would?? Cause he said it would, and no proof. Someones got to do what I do, in fact, there is more than me out there doing it, and if I cant help, I recommend the competition to help out. Yeah, I bore em, I install a stroker and call it a day,, yeah,, that all there is to do aint it? LMAO,, LMAO!! Yeah, sure thats all there is to do, nothing more, nothing less but bolt it together and shove it out the door. Well, maybe at Denny's thats how it goes, but not here. What is it you think I dont get again?? The fact that technology has out ran the rules? The rules should be updated, or leave em be. Ill soon build an aluminum block and say its OEM, and hope like heck I dont get run out on a rail cause it out does em all. Why should I have to do that to pull division 3? Cause!! Whats good for the goose is good for the gander. Everyone else does it, heck, why not just bolt in a big block chevy and call it even huh??? Thats what it will come down to. Why even have rules? run what u brung and go for it. ChadS

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Drew

08-08-2005 18:22:08

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to ChadS, 08-08-2005 13:21:38

Saying you are better than Denny isnt saying much, now is it?

I can't wait for the expansion to "Magic govornor spring factory AND foundry" Ya gonna use that waterjet to machine your aluminum block?????

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ChadS

08-09-2005 07:01:11

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to Drew, 08-08-2005 18:22:08

Sure hope it holds better than a welded rod! Probably would build it from a casting, and Use whatever machines possible to create it. Im more of the lines of deck plates for water jet, and oh yes, why not, it shold have a deck plate inthere too! Like you said, size dont matter, but if the shoe fits put the darn thing on and wear it out! Some of the best engineers inthe industry hide in the sticks of the country, and I know quite a few of em. ChadS

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Yeoman

08-08-2005 17:35:47

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to ChadS, 08-08-2005 13:21:38

Excuse me. I have not rephrased anythig you said; I QUOTED you. If your point is that you contradict yourself and are not credible, I agree. "I do not handle the sales of the springs, nor set prices...". Does this statement mean that you concur about the price gouging? If that is so why have you been hawking them on this board? Where did the issue of Denny's come from? Do you think that if someone else is outrageous, as you suggest, that being so, to a lesser degree, makes your conduct good? If you think that you are working "for pennies on the dollar" I hear that they are looking for a few good men down at the golden arches, that is if you need the money . Why are you "LMAO,,LAMO!!"? It sounds as if the questionable work you do is grieviously threatened by similar modifications to other brands. BTW as long as stock appearance is maintained why would anyone care if a cylinder jug is ferrous or non? The weight difference is not much. On a 24.5 truck rim it is about 35 lbs. BTW in you quest for Truth, Honor, and a trophy are you running IHC points and condenser, or ILLEGAL after market parts. Is your headgasket genuine IHC? Do you realize how silly your childish whining is? Shut up and pull. Best, Phil PS: If you decide to learn more about engines, or MM engines, Moli is a good wrench; his stuff do run run.

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ChadS

08-09-2005 06:56:52

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to Yeoman, 08-08-2005 17:35:47

I still run points and condensor. I still use IH head gasket and not a copper one, and my rpms are below our 10% rule. Thats on my modified. My farm stock, still has the stock cubic inch, and origianl part numbers for that tractor, I dont run cut tires, I dont over rev the engine, still under the 10% rpm rule as well. Been that way for years. No, the other modifications dont bother me, as long as the rules allow it, in this case, looks like it is ok, fine and dandy with the club. I sad I dont need to reprhase anything cause I meant it. No changes, nor repeat myself. If you got problems in prices, talk to the person in charge. I just do the work. Id like to know where and when I became an overnite liar,,, but, thats in your eyes, and one out of 100 is ok by me. My conduct and word is as good as the equipment that leaves the shop, and I back it up, how much more does one want? I brought up Denny cause he STOLE the governor spring from us, and how honest does that make one feel? HUH? Chad

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Yeoman

08-09-2005 12:10:12

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to ChadS, 08-09-2005 06:56:52

Thats what I say, HUH?? Brace yourself. The governor spring has been around longer than you have. That you think someone "STOLE the governor spring from us", again, asserts that you are not credible; by your own words. I never called you a liar. As per usual, in your own little world of fantasy land, never never land, or what ever planet your mail is delivered to, you missed the point about OEM and aftermarket stuff. Since IHC has been gone for about as long as you have been, you are obviously buying aftermarket parts; and I truly doubt that IHC, JD, or any of the other big boys make their own gaskets.

Frankly, it would not matter to me if you did build an aluminum block so long as it had a stock appearance; the tractor still has to meet weight. I doubt that many would be threatened by the "inventor" of the governor spring. Come on; load up, shut up, and pull. Best, Phil

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ChadS

08-09-2005 17:35:44

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to Yeoman, 08-09-2005 12:10:12

Then explain why, everyone spends $300+ on governors, where a good stock governor with a good spring does even better than the $300+ "Pullin" governors? I dunno, If I had a choice,, Id keep my extra $275 and spend it on something worth while. Tell you what Phil, Ill give you a sample of our spring to try. Free, H-450 you choose. If it dont do what I say it does, then you can say the magic aint what it really is,, BUT, if it does do exactly what I said, you come back on and sing the praises. What do you say? If it works, keep it. You have nothing to lose. Except,, well, you know what,,, I love that,,,, load up, shut up and pull,, Bet you got a T-shirt that says that dont ya? Does it have a Dennys logo on it too? Fact is,, We rewrote the ways people think on how things work,,, while everyone else is bragging bout their stuff, we put it on the track. OH,, How come you pulling red tractors??? A big Moline man as yourself,,, dont make sence to me,,,,, Of course, the way you say, I never will,,,,, Its your story, tell it any way you like. Good Evening sir! ChadS

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Yeoman

08-10-2005 09:59:49

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to ChadS, 08-09-2005 17:35:44

"Everyone" does not spend $300.00, or more, on governors. "Everyone" does not spend $25.00, or more, on a $00.97 spring. The IHC M I referenced was running with a factory spring. Thanks for the offer, no thanks, don't need it. As far as Denny's goes; I have never spent a penny with them and do not anticipate doing so. I never said I was pulling a red tractor.

Check out remedial reading classes; SOON.

AS far as you or "WE" rewritng any books my guess is that if you ever did, it was a "Crayola" project. You claimed you invented the governor spring; and you did not. You claimed the invention of the limited slip differential, or posi, or whatever you want to call it; and you did not. What color are the clouds in your world? Best, Phil

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ChadS

08-10-2005 13:47:37

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to Yeoman, 08-10-2005 09:59:49

Yeah,, ok. 4000rpm with a stock spring. Yeah, sure it does. And yes, in the antique pulling tractor, we have invented the limited slip posi differential, that nothing will ever match. Anyone who has one knows it. Nice try,,, Chad

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Yeoman

08-10-2005 19:58:19

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to ChadS, 08-10-2005 13:47:37

Well, an M doing a rich 5MPH in 1st is probably right in that neighborhood, and it did. It was never my tractor but it sure did beat mine. It turned hard enough with the factory flywheel that it scared me. "We have INVENTED the limited slip posi differential...". I believe there is a tractor in my shed, over forty years old, which came from the factory with such. You are terrific, too bad Walt Disney is not here to market you IMAGINATION. Are you really just a champion, or the Queen of England too? Best, Phil

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ChadS

08-11-2005 06:35:42

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to Yeoman, 08-10-2005 19:58:19

Call me Ishmael,, please. Yeah, massey harris had friction disks, 101's, 44's had em. Nothing like how we do it. Chad

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Yeoman

08-11-2005 07:55:32

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to ChadS, 08-11-2005 06:35:42

Queenie or something that rhymes would probably be closer. How about culturally deprived and intllectually diminished? Posi was in cars and the Detroit locker appeared in big trucks and equipment a good four decades ago. Not surprisingly, you are not even close on the tractor.

I heard a rumor that you might be announcing the invention of fire, and or the wheel sometime soon. You are awesome entertainment. best Phil

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ChadS

08-11-2005 10:30:17

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to Yeoman, 08-11-2005 07:55:32

Yep, sure,,,,, , Show me 4 brands of tractors, other than a massey, built from 1939-1950 that had a factory posi, and or, limited slip differential. you did not see them until the 10-20 series deeres came out, when was that,, 1960 and later?? if you want to refer rear ends to me, well Ive been in every rear end make and model of tractor ther was from 39-59! Nope, no posi's, or limited slips,, IH, nope, John Deere, nope, Moline, nope, Oliver, nope, Cockshutt, nope, and we have a posi limited slip for all of them. Still, Aint no impressing you, nor do I want to, I find talking with you as exciting as watching paint dry. But, still,, entertainment none the less. We are right onthe money on the parts we have to offer, for antique pullers, I am still wondering why you said you are pulling red tractors,,,, WHY???? Seen the light? Chad

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Yeoman

08-11-2005 20:05:54

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to ChadS, 08-11-2005 10:30:17

You are profoundly challenged and without credibility. I simply stated that I had a tractor in my shed, over forty years old with the limited slip, posi, or whatever you want to call it; and I do. That claim of yours, to have recently invented such, demonstrates your untruthful character. You are correct that you "still, aint impressing" me, or most anyone else. If a $00.97 spring for $25-30 bucks is on the money; then you are. (See post about greed.) "I am still wondering why you said you are pulling red tractors..." Sorry genius, never said any such thing. (See post about remedial reading class; SOON.) (AGAIN!!). "If you want to refer rear ends to me..." not ever likely; but certainly do believe that you are a equinas chordatas. Given your woeful sense of fairness demonstrated in this initial post,by you Chadsy, and you inability to get any details correct; as in accurate, without even considering your price gouging, do you have any idea what an advertising weapon you are for ALL of the businesses competing for work you allege to do? best, Phil

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ChadS

08-12-2005 07:02:37

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to Yeoman, 08-11-2005 20:05:54

Phil Phil Phil,,, Calm down,, We have been buildi our differentials way before any one advertized them in any source of advertizing tool. Such as a Magazine, or internet, or even by telephone. Been building them for 8 years now, and the advertizing has started to really pay off. And Im talking about where we advertize, in the Hook, red power, OPP, and about 20 other places too, but, I dont put ads on here any longer. No big banner ads like FOR SALE! If everyone else was worried about what I do, then I guess they better do a better job in how they do their work, and sell their technology. I give info for nothing, its common knowledge, heck persons read Hot Rod magazines to learn how to beef up their street rods, this forum is no different,,,, I do this info on here, or over the phone, because no one else will, or capable of taking the time to learn more about their customers tractors, or let me even go one step further, they dont have to buy anything to get info that will help them, the do it yourself antique tractor puller that cant afford to spend the big $$ on name brand pulling parts. I remember when Marlatt would talk to anyone who asked him, now days, does he do that? Not when he was a Lemmons,,, cause I belive someone got ticked off cause he knew more than the other workers in the shop, and could not express himself the way he wanted to. SILENCED!!! And told to just sell the parts, like a damn robot. Its either that, or he could handle the pressure of all the calls. Never alledge I do this for a buck, or dont do anything I say, and practice it everyday by working on a tractor. Cause I do,, the education you speak of, dont go far in my location, unless you go out and find it somewhere else, but that dont mean I am not capapble of comprehension. I can call you "Richard Ceranium" would you know what that stands for in redneck language? But really Phil, I dont want to insult you, or call you names, or anything to degrade you. There is no Money in it. But, I will say, I always enjoy the way you write,, very educated, and professional, something that a redneck like me, who does not have the PHD's or whatever, never has seen before. As for being a weapon for business, well, nothing wrong in doing it the right way, and by personal experience. if I stand out alone in a crowd, and judged by my peers, well then Ill stand amongst them and be judged. Why dont you ask the other big names,, and bigger than I will ever be, come on here and give information the way I do. Cause they may not know, they may not care, or they do it the way I have said. Who cares?? As long as what they do is good, and worth the time to work for it. Have a good day Phil, its time for me to row with the other slaves of the industry, anf go pulling! Be good sir! Chad

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Yeoman

08-16-2005 21:29:37

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to ChadS, 08-12-2005 07:02:37

Queenie:

Why would anyone think I am not calm? You are the one who, when one silly untruthful claim after is another is exposed, jumps to yet another silly untruthful claim. You have an eight year history building posi differentials, according to you, and they have been around in farm tractors for over forty years, but you invented them. No wonder you could not figure out the gear ratios on a final drive; it is arithmatic, not fantasy!

The MAGIC MIRACLE MONSTER governor spring; ibid.

The rest of your drivel is difficult to grasp. President Lincoln said that writing is the ultimate discipline of thought. Get some discipline.

Allege not alledge. Yes I know you dont do this for a buck. Mega bucks yes, one buck no.

And just who is "Richard Ceranium" or did you mean crainium?

Education should help you every day of your life. What were you thinking while wasting fifteen or twenty years of your life, riding the "short" bus, while eating chocolate pudding with rubber spoons; instead of diligently working on your third grade diploma?

Too bad you are real, if you were not you could be funnier than Jeff Foxworthy, And Larry the cable guy. best, Phil

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ChadS

08-18-2005 14:29:24

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to Yeoman, 08-16-2005 21:29:37

Phil, I think your jelous of me, cuase I can do my job, and do it well. I dont get the mega dollars to do what I do. No I never rode the short bus, ANTIQUE TRACTORS never had posi/limited slip differentials, and thats the ones that are OVER 40 years old. Like I said, the first real one was in the 10-20 series JD's. I was thinking on how to do with what I had, cause no one else sure did anything for me. I did it the way i know how, git r done. You, I think you buy your way out of things, which on the hand, is a luxury of old age. Phil Id just appreciate it if you left me alone, Im from the country, and I like itthat way, I do things my way, not others, if you dont like it, sit on a snake. Chad

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Drew

08-10-2005 15:11:40

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to ChadS, 08-10-2005 13:47:37

Does your arm hurt from patting yourself on the back so much??

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moli

08-08-2005 14:08:39

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to ChadS, 08-08-2005 13:21:38

chads,with all the questions you ask it sounds more like you want to build a mm or someone wants you to work on one and you dont know what your doin..A motor is a motor is a motor but only so far...why dont you come over to the dark side...

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ChadS

08-07-2005 19:15:12

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to moli, 08-07-2005 18:20:44

LMAO!! A junkyard match huh? Ive seen wrestling have the ladder matches, and cage matches, etc etc,, some big ol muscle head against some little guy,, little guy seems to win all the time! Hey, Ive pulled the H against the big Molines, and beat em in their own class. Well, I think we may have a David, VS Goliath thing going on,,, A battle of epic proportions, wonder whatthe outcome could be? Guess will find out soon enough. Hey, you Moline guys aint so tough, and are actually pretty nice fellas. But, This Ih man is ready to send em home packing. With hwat I have got all ready, Nope, its not the big H, a littler, itty bity one. One that will run the percent up. Guess will just have to see who the light shines on,,, Red, or yellow. ChadS

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Drew

08-07-2005 19:58:33

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to ChadS, 08-07-2005 19:15:12

You may have beat big Molines in a calculator pull, but I doubt you will have the same results with heads up weight and a plain ole "who goes the farthest wins."

And back to your original topic, I still dont get why you are crying about these blocks. I run a Deere w/ a big block against a 460 w/ a 301ci, a D17 w/ a 6cyl Buda on gas, several good running AC-WD's and several Molines w/ the big blocks....and ya know what, EVERY one of these tractors has atleast one win this year. If you have a speed limit, it DOES NOT MATTER how much you are packin', its how you use it. I suggest you learn how to use it.

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ChadS

08-08-2005 06:11:56

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to Drew, 08-07-2005 19:58:33

Drew, Like I mentioned before, this is the time of year in our club, where everyone seems to have a complaint about something,,, Myself included. I agree 110%,, use what you have, and see if its better or not. No, that day I beat em, it was both, calculator, and distance wise, left em scratchin their heads that day. Im not knockng the product, Im knocking our rules, where at one time or another, something like that would have been sent back on the next train home, now it is embraced and opens up pandoras box for anyone. So, I will leave it at this, Ive had fun reading all the responces about all this,, really, I have! If the shoe fits, wear it, If the sled pulls, pull it. And if a small block tracor, beats a big block, well, dont hate the little guys,,, If the small block tractor wins against a class full of big blocks, then we get the bragging rights for that day. So, I guess, with all that said, When the going gets tough, the tough, gets going. Lets have some fun Doc! A rumor round here is,, the only way to beat a Moline, is with a DEERE! and yep, wish our club had 58 and older, cause we got a big OL Deere, that could leave em running scared. and its not a letter series either. IH can do it,, but it better be packing heat! LOL! Chad

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mo4xdadad

08-07-2005 19:26:19

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to ChadS, 08-07-2005 19:15:12

guess I will have to finish that 2750# r with the 350 cube engine that otta do it LOL better yet the 4000# U with 836ci and special gears LOL

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ChadS

08-08-2005 06:17:08

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to mo4xdadad, 08-07-2005 19:26:19

LOL, yeah that mite be something to see. Not many builds the small Molines. I seen inthe HOOK, while back a U MM in the 4000 lb class, Like I said, not knocking the product, just a rule. I say finish up that R!! Give more color in lite classes. I can see clearer now,,, HAHAHA!! But, IH aint scared. Chad

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jd b puller

08-07-2005 04:51:01

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to ChadS, 08-05-2005 08:57:56

Chad - my opinion, in Div III, I could care less if you stuck a big CAT in there. ANd except that I like the idea of these older tractors pulling, I wouldn't care if you brought a current year tractor. (I am not in favor of that, like I said it's about the old tractors) You are still limited to RPM +10% and 3.5MPH. Do the math, you can have 500HP but you are still only going 3.5MPH, that is what keeps people more even.

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mo4xdadad

08-06-2005 13:10:59

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to ChadS, 08-05-2005 08:57:56

By the way our blocks do have the numbers, and all the little casting defects, seams etc, the factory had. You cannot tell the difference once they are bolted on.

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Craig Noble

08-06-2005 12:39:18

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to ChadS, 08-05-2005 08:57:56

I have a 1953 MM UB that is bare bones farm stock that once weighed 7800.and now weighs 5500. and leaves them others in the dust. FULL PULL. It also out pulls the hopped up Farmall Ms and John Deeres of the same weight class.Aint nothing sounds better than a MM pulling down the track!!

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Craig Noble

08-13-2005 20:29:57

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to Craig Noble, 08-06-2005 12:39:18

WRONG, I can remember that white (CASPER) losing by 6 feet and several people nicknamed the MM the GHOST BUSTER. Better check your records.Also another red me out pulled me by 1 foot.Also I have 2 different size tires on the back, some kind of way my dad screwed the pooch there.I have a bad back and can not be lifting iron any more. I still use the MM to shred with.Bring it on.

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colekicker

08-06-2005 21:03:41

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to Craig Noble, 08-06-2005 12:39:18

I've seen that MM get beat by plenty of Farmalls. Haven't seen it beat any of these Farmall M's and SM's since they got new feet on the ground. Sad thing is, one of the SM's that you are claiming to be "hopped up" had a stuck motor. Had the pistons knocked out the top and cylinders cleaned back up. Reused the rings and everything else. But wait, they aren't even pop-up pistons, they are flat tops. We'll see what happens in September in Columbus, Texas.

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Drew

08-06-2005 11:59:02

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to ChadS, 08-05-2005 08:57:56

These blocks are no different that Jerry's blocks/heads for Deeres. If it is a part for sale to the general public, then it is classified as a replacement part. Like someone else mentioned, you can make a stock MM-U block the big bore, and from the outside no one is the wiser. If it is casting #'s you are worried about, there is an easy cure for that. You can't make rules against parts if you have no way to enforce them. Is your problem with these blocks that the Chads magic govornor spring factory hasn't figured out how to make them yet? Just because others have figured out new technology and you haven't isn't a reason to hold everyone else back.

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mo4xdadad

08-06-2005 11:00:31

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to ChadS, 08-05-2005 08:57:56

The new cast blocks are the MM guys way of getting a fair playing field. People have cried and made rules against our factory replacement parts. John deere's run power blocks with who knows what bore. They run stroke so stinkin far they run transmission and engine oil in same compartment, and no one complains. IH's run billet cranks and cams like the olivers. Are these factory/manufacturer replacement parts. Bottom line is Moline was smart in there designing processes by using same bolt patters for blocks and heads from late 30,s to early 70's
They have more interchangabilty than any other manufacturer out there, and still people complain.
How does this sound for fair a G moline, 600 cubic inch weighing 4500#, It has been done. Or a u weighing 4000# with over 800 cubes, being done.
Regearing transmissions is that legal? But everyone does it. Lets cover other makes like an A allis, huge potential, no pto and they get DQed at these so called dyno pulls because you can't dyno them on a typical dyno. Bottom line is everyone is trying to get on top. Pull out your checkbook, do the work, stop complaining about the legal stuff, or leave yours at home in the shed so you can tell the story how you see it. Instead of admitting you're to tight to upgrade or not willing to admit someone honestly beat you.
Better yet if you can't beat em join em. Buy yourself a moline and build it the way you see fit mister world class engine builder for the IH clan.

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ChadS

08-06-2005 11:24:34

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to mo4xdadad, 08-06-2005 11:00:31

Technology has gone so far in the last 3 years, its hard to see it all in one place. You guys do make a strong point,, and Im hearing that as well, but, try making a politcal scene out of an issue, and see how far it goes, like a yo-yo, goes out, and comes right back at me. No, I dont want a Moline, even though I have a small blocker MM in the shed, I just may have to join them, And yes, I am waiting on funds to finish up the big H, but its not a large sum to git r done, and then, I would not even care what they got. Id say if the lite MM's you speak of are safe, let em go, Id hate to see one like that pull percentage though,,, ChadS

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RichB

08-06-2005 09:44:38

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mm blocks in reply to ChadS, 08-05-2005 08:57:56

I think if a Farmall can use a billet steel crank to achieve 660 CI,Why should these MM blocks not be legal? Thats not a factory welded and offset ground crank with casting numbers,I suppose just because we cant see it then it doesn"t matter?I don"t think a billet crank should be legal if these blocks are not,Nothing personal chad You seem like a great guy and always offer info to us all,This is just my opinion.I wish we lived closer,I think I could give the 460/H some stiff competition with my 77 in 3500 class!! OH how is the H doing, Later Rich

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ChadS

08-06-2005 11:10:47

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Re: mm blocks in reply to RichB, 08-06-2005 09:44:38

Well, you see the billet in the div 4 and up type tractors, and, no I dont think they should be in a class under div 4, maybe even 5,, but, thats on a national level too. Nothing like that round here,, No, I guess if the club lets it go, then let it be,,, Im going to run the 460 in September for 3rd time, 3 strikes before, working on the 4th,, Its alot better this time I think. Im taking off the 18.4's and running 15.5's and go up a gear. It is a RPM puller, finally got the scatter blanket for it, So I feel better bout it. There is no doubt in my mind, that it would be a fun showdown,, Im in northern Indiana, but will go south thanksgiving once again. H is coming along, still onthe stand, waiting for eternity I guess. Im a little more excited bout the 460 right now than anything,, Its been crying out,, take me to a pull! Well, I heard it, and were gonna go. Roann Indiana on Sept 12. Dont care if it wins, just pull it. Go from there. Chad

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the new rules

08-06-2005 06:04:26

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to ChadS, 08-05-2005 08:57:56

Sounds like somebody has done what they needed to do to kick your butt. So you can cheat but nobody else can? What about those 560`s with 806 gas engines? This could go on and on get over it and build something to beat the MM guy.You after all are super puller. Take an M and build it to pull 4500. It has been done.

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ChadS

08-06-2005 11:27:13

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to the new rules, 08-06-2005 06:04:26

No, Ill do it with an H. Its comming, and it will be a percentage game once again when it shows back up. Actually, the MM's in question, there is only one in the class that I pull in,, 4501-5500 mods, and he dont win much in that class,,, I just love to stir a boiling pot. See If I can get burned. ChadS

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B BARENIE

08-06-2005 05:05:12

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to ChadS, 08-05-2005 08:57:56

MR CHADS
I DO NOT HAVE ANY IDEA WHO YOUR IN REFERENCE TOO, BUT THERE IS NO ONE IN OUR CLUB RUNNING SPECIAL MADE BLOCKS, WHETHER IN FARM STOCK OR DIVISION 3.
A WELL BUILT FARMALL CAN OPERATE WITH AT LEAST 50 CUBES LESS AND STILL PULL THE NUMBERS ON THE DYNO.

WHEN YOU GET PAST 450 CUBES IN AN M OR AN MM, IT'S LESS EXPENSIVE TO BUILD THE MOLINE, BUT THOSE PART'S ARE GETTING HARDER TO COME BY TOO !

I'LL TELL YOU ONCE AGAIN, THEIR ARE NO FANCY PART'S IN THOSE TRACTOR'S, 2 OF THEM ARE BUILT VERY WELL, THE THIRD IS A PRIME EXAMPLE OF HOW VERY LITTLE CAN CREATE VERY MUCH, OH THEIRS THE FOURTH, A STOCK G MOLINE.

IT'S NOT ABOUT PUSHING THE SMALL TRACTOR'S OUT, IT'S MORE LIKE GETTING THE BIG TRACTOR'S LIGHT.

YOUR GOING TO SEE MORE HP IN ALL CLASSES AS TIME GOES ON !
WHEN MAGAZINES LIKE THE HOOK AND OLD POWER PRIDE START DISPLAYING BUILD-UPS , WE ALL GET SMARTER !

EXCELLENT READING MATERIAL !
FOOD FOR THOUGHT !

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Flogger

08-05-2005 13:52:53

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to ChadS, 08-05-2005 08:57:56

A very hard to enforce can of worms. Do you have a RPM and speed limit? That's about the best solution to tractors with too much power I've ever seen.

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ChadS

08-05-2005 17:57:35

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to Flogger, 08-05-2005 13:52:53

Yes, yes and yes. Picture a percentage pull, where you have tractors that can weigh 4501lbs and up to 5500lbs. Distance dont mean squat, its percentage, but, the first puller in the class is one of these U's, and they can stop him, runs the box up the rails and boom a full pull. The track committe takes on look at that, they say, ADD MORE WEIGHT!!! so they throw weight on there, nope dont stop em, ADD MORE WEIGHT!! they have all the damn weights on the sled, and say to the 4500 lb tractors,, OK here ya go!! Shoot, cant even get to the speed limit cones!!!!! ! Let alone set the sled up for one tractor in the class. They seem to forget, that that test tractor is 5500lbs, running 4th gear, and well, the correct setting for the class on the sled, is no where near that heavy, We all know the 5500 lbe tractor will full pull the sled!! we dont use a 50000lb sled, well, now we do it seems. The heavy ones are not the only ones in the class here fellas, and the rest of us,, have part numbers on our pullers,,, but they are setting up the sled for these tractors and laughing at the rest and not looking back. Tired of this Sh!t. ChadS

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Scotmac

08-05-2005 12:59:51

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to ChadS, 08-05-2005 08:57:56

Man, you Guy's are going the same way we did in NTPA in the late seventies! I sat on the NTPA board as a rep from Iowa and pushed for limitations in all divisons...trying to keep the cost down. Most everybody replied that we couldn't go backwards...we needed to keep moving forward if we were to make a name for ourselves the NASCAR guys. Well....30 years later look at NASCAR, and look at NTPA. You will NEVER make enough rules to govern everybody...but if your rules say OEM block, then it should be an OEM block for the tractor you're running. If not, then it belongs in a "modified" stock or open divison where it could legally run. Just my two cents worth.

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Mopower

08-05-2005 12:44:47

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to ChadS, 08-05-2005 08:57:56

While the practicality of creating such a rule is logical in Div3, the enforcability would be tough. I do not know the differences in the new MM cast blocks (real fine product, I hear), but I can go buy a modified U 5.75" bore block, but on the outside it looks normal. HD800 blocks can be rigged up, but a MM guy would know. My old UTU could run over 750 cubes and looks like the day it came off the line at MM. Valid point, tough solution.

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Earl-IL

08-05-2005 09:37:38

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to ChadS, 08-05-2005 08:57:56

Are 2cyl. John Deere Tractor Supply Power Blocks allowed to run in DIV.3?? Earl

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ChadS

08-05-2005 11:29:05

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to Earl-IL, 08-05-2005 09:37:38

I dont know, but those were made for farmers, and agricultural work. And offered at the same time the tractors were produced. Chad

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So were 800 HD Blocks...

08-07-2005 12:27:58

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to ChadS, 08-05-2005 11:29:05

800 HD engines were used everywhere on the plains irrigating agricultural farm land at one time. Not modified. Built at MM and used that way.

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ChadS

08-08-2005 06:22:17

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to So were 800 HD Blocks..., 08-07-2005 12:27:58

I know! Seems kinda dumb to have a no 800 rule, when these are allowed,,, Chad

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LIL283

08-05-2005 09:10:18

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to ChadS, 08-05-2005 08:57:56

YOU ARE JUST JEALOUS THAT A MOLINE CAN OUTPULL YOUR LITTLE FARMALL---AS MY GRAT GRANDFATHER SAID ONCE ABOUT MOLINE'S----EATEN JOHN DEERE'S/SH#TEN FARMALLS

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ChadS

08-05-2005 11:49:03

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to LIL283, 08-05-2005 09:10:18

Well, a U Moline better out pull a H farmall!! If not, they better have a look at me then!!! I mite be cheatin! Chad

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Dieselbear

08-05-2005 09:18:13

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to LIL283, 08-05-2005 09:10:18

The ones that I make are advertised as "replacement parts". Cast iron or aluinium.

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ChadS

08-05-2005 11:46:57

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to Dieselbear, 08-05-2005 09:18:13

First off, dont think Im knocking your product, they run good. We have some rule bending going on in our club, that needs to be addresed in this matter. I realize, that you do say "replacement" But, our rules state that they have to be a "Manufactures" replacement, which means it has to be an original MM or IH, etc etc part, with a factory part number. replacement yes, but not from the company that makes them. See, this time of year, everyone is at each others throat, someones beating someone else, someones running cut tires when they aint supposed to, hitches arent up to rule specs, etc etc the list goes on and on,,,, but for some reason, this particular issue on "aftermarket" blocks are being ignored. Keeping it hush hush, but yelling the most at all the others,,,,, If I came in there with an aluminum over head cam head in MY IH, Id be escorted out of the pull with a ball bat!! Same would go for a block that did not have an IH part number. See what Im saying? Our club rules say it in black and white, " Tractors must use engine block of simular type used by the manufacturer." Then later down in the paragraph, it then reads, "tractors can use any replacable block or upgraded engine block." I will always assume,, and I use that term firmly, that this means manufactures replacements,,,So there we have a written rule, that contradicts the other!!! So what to do,, "Manufactureres, or aftermarket"??? If they were smart, it will still keep manufacturers,,, the way it was intended to be described. Like I said, Im not knocking the product at all, but if it dont belong, it should be protested. ChadS

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Mike n Mo

08-05-2005 14:40:47

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to ChadS, 08-05-2005 11:46:57

I agree with Luckydog. The way you quote your rules, an aftermarket replacement block would be legal if it was a "similar" type. I would interpet that to mean if it bolts to the bell housing or crankcase in a stock manner, and a stock head will bolt on it then it would be legal. The earlier post about a speed limit being the enforcer as far as engine power is right on the money. Keep the tire size right, the hitch dimensions right, don't blow the horn, and let'em roll. Just my $0.03 worth (Gotta adjust for inflation) Mike

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luckydog

08-05-2005 13:09:20

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to ChadS, 08-05-2005 11:46:57

Chads- If you read your own rule--"tractors can use any replacable block or up graded engine block" kind of says it all in my book. I was once told from a fellow puller to " cheat as far as the rules will let you"!! Read Between The Lines luckydog

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New Manufacturer

08-05-2005 12:39:57

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to ChadS, 08-05-2005 11:46:57

I don't think Farmall ever intended that a 6 cylinder 460 block would be a replacement in a H, but you have no problem with that. Nothing worse than a crying cheater.

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ChadS

08-05-2005 17:36:04

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to New Manufacturer, 08-05-2005 12:39:57

Depends on how I can "read between the rules" on how that tractor is built, and could be legal in division 3!! See, this tractor is the complete opposite of the rules! Where there is one way to twist a rule, well surely it would have to be listed along the list of modifications that an open rule like this one in discussion could develop into. See, My 460, is unique, but, it is a 99.5% BOLT together, 100% IH. It does meet out rules, but, we stop at 1957!!!! I know darn well I could pull it in NIATPA if they went up to 58 and older! Where some pullers install a big huge different engine in a model of tractor, I took 2 tractors, made one, and built around it. you take a Farmall H rear end, at the bellhousing, and then you unbolt a 460 from the engine plate, frame rails and all, put in a Super H clutch disk to match 2 things up,, one is to have the same diamter clutch disk the 460 runs, and use the H input shaft for the clutch spline, so there is absolutely NO drive shaft alterations of any kind, the 460 engine plate is the exact same bolt pattern as the bellhousing of the Farmall H. The Frame rails are the exact bolt pattern of the H too. This now make this frame the same length as a 460 farmall, in which rules state, engines, rear ends, and transmissions, must be the same make and model as the manufacturer, and fit in the stock frame rails, with no modifications, frame lengthening, or drive shaft length alterations. See, this is IH's, and my answer to a ollie 88 in a 3500# class, pulling against little tractors, and take their $$. Back to my 460,, every part has a IH part number, and is being portrayed as a certain model, if its ok to change engines, its sure as heck ok to change rear ends, long as it is the same make and made by the factory. Ill tell ya, turn that 460 loose in our mods, the M's and the 88's will run scared, and pull in the classes where the U Molines come in our class and make it a HP pull, well, well just turn it back into a percentage game real quick on them. My 460 can meet the rules in our club, but I did not use any type, of aftermarket, no part numbered, non agricultural block to do it. Its 110% IH, and built by ME! Yeah, put that year up to 1958 next year, then, I would care less if the molines had what they got, cause, if I can do this with a H and a 460,,,, Just imagine what I could do with a 560 diesil!!! And still be 100% IH!!!! parts book to show its IH. Wonder who would be a cheater then??? Heck, we got 77's running 88 blocks,, Molines running god knows what,, and persons who have forgotten what rules are, and interpreted, and not slid in, overlooked, and call the honest guy a cheater. Any one care to spec me out, Ill put it on the scale, and break out the fine tooth combs, cause remember, the one who protests me, gotta submit the exact same claims to be allowed to be protested, How legal are you I ask? of course, If any one actually looks around,, and does tech inspections, half the club would not meet rules! I may have said call me anything you like, but you dont call me a cheater,, that aint the way I do it. aint my style. ChadS

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puller_at_heart

08-06-2005 04:01:55

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to ChadS, 08-05-2005 17:36:04

As far as reading you rules go, that MM block is legal. It just sounds to me that someone is crying because he got one up, the legal way. Stop crying!!!!

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Jerry Cent. Mi.

08-06-2005 15:10:28

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Re: New casted MM blocks, in reply to puller_at_heart, 08-06-2005 04:01:55

I have noticed that most of the guys with these modified tractors pretty much stay in their own class. Who wants to look bad by drasticly always kicking everyones butts with over preformance.

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