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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

advance timing for more power or retard timing?

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730 case

08-12-2005 08:51:52




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G/MAN

08-12-2005 13:51:21




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 Re: advance timing for more power or retard timing in reply to 730 case, 08-12-2005 08:51:52  
Depends on the engine, fuel, how the tractor is used, and ignition type - electronic or points. Best way to optimize it is to load it on the dyno in order to find what advance produces the most power with no pinging when the engine is fully warmed up I haven't seen too many tractors with vacuum-advance, so that shouldn't be an issue. Having the base timing too far advanced (no centrifugal advance) can lead to hard starting, as the ignition is trying to light the fire well before the piston is fully up the cylinder. There are several outfits that can put your distributor on a tester and custom-tune the curve for what you want. Generally a factory advance curve is pretty darn slow, and speeding up the advance will help the engine rev up faster. You can also do it yourself with a timing light, or there may be some old-timer around that has a distributor tester.

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John T

08-12-2005 10:47:18




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 Re: advance timing for more power or retard timing in reply to 730 case, 08-12-2005 08:51:52  
The amount of timing advance to maximize power is a relatively complicated formula dependent upon several variables such as: RPM,,,,,Compression,,,,,Fuel and Octane. Thats why and how centrifugal (RPM based) advance and even vacuum advance come into play to change the timing relative to RPM and manifold vacuum.

As RPM increases more advance is needed to initiate the combustion cycle far enough ahead of TDC so that once the piston just crosses past TDC the exploding gas pressures drive the piston down.

At lower RPM's if the combustion is initiated too soon before TDC the exploding expanding gasses tend partly to drive the piston backwards which is a severe loss of the intended energy.

At higher compressions it becomes necessary to use higher octane rated fuels which are more difficult to ignite (to prevent pre ignition) so higher RPM coupled with harder to ignite fuels requires more timing advance. You have to initiate the combustion cycle earlier at higher RPM's with fuel thats harder to ignite.....

Sooooo ooo Im not smart enough to answer your question in any general one size fits all answer cuz the answer is IT DEPENDS. Maybe the best way is to couple her to a dyno and load her down to a typical horsepower load and at rated RPM then fine tune n tweak the timing to maximize horsepower for that fuel and that RPM and that load !!!!! !!!!! That may involve the use of different distributor weights and/or spring tensions to alter the advance versus RPM timing curve or maybe just tweak the distributors rotational position which adjusts the static start timing (when theres no centrifugal advance) but also obviously affects timing in general.

John T in Indiana, retired electrical engineer NOT a mechanical engineer but we learned this stuff in the back of our EE books at Purdue in the good ol sixties lol

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buickanddeere

08-13-2005 06:17:14




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 Re: advance timing for more power or retard timing in reply to John T, 08-12-2005 10:47:18  
Then there are the timing when the timing advance has to be retarded a little at max rpms when the engine is also fully heated up. While more lead time is required to get the combustion process going by TDC. The higher the rpms the more the air/fuel mixture is heated during the compression. The time in which the mixture is compressed is less so the temp is higher. There is also less time for the heat to soak out into the engine's metal. This is one on the reasons pullers and drag racers look and sound good until over the 1/2 way mark. Then she starts to loose a little bit of power and shortly after goes bang-clatter. Using nitrous, super charging or turbo's makes this tendency even more pronouced. Some modified engines get running lean during extended full power as the fuel bowl level eventually drops.

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