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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

You want out of line???

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ChadS

02-11-2006 09:00:11




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Well here goes!! Ive been actively pulling NCIATPA for 15 years now. Seen alot of good pullers come, and go. main reason they left was cause of BS rules changes on the spot at an event in which someone had the athority to do so cause it affected his or hers tractor. Ive seen that happen about 10 times in 15 years and can name every incident. Ive seen unsafe acts,, namely rpm checks,, maybe the board member, should have atleast told the guy that they wanted to check his rpm,, instead of just walking up to him and grabbing his throttle! End result, bout had a fist fight break out, and police on the scene to escort em out of the fair grounds. They called the owner of the tractor "unrully" cause he got upset cause that board member grabbed his throttle. Out of line! Out of order, and out of their minds! Next issue was tires for the wheatland/standard tractors that pulled in farm stock. I know for a fact that those wheatlands were in fact barred from pulling that year just cause no one can agree on a tire size. Now, the rule state, that it still has to retain the stock rim diameter, but cant go over a 15.5 width. Now, for the wheatlands that have 34 inch tires, you all know, that you cannot buy a new 14-34 tire, nor find a 15.5 34 tire, or a 13-34 tire. So they have the only option of having a 16.9X34 as a replacement for the 14-34. And if those tractors dont have 14-34"s they cant pull! Where in the world are you gonna find a 14-34 in good original condition? Sure, they are out there,, but wont be worth a darn! Barenie is lucky,, he has a standard with 14-34"s so he can pull, hopefuly they hold air and are worth a darn,,, NCIATPA made this a catch 22 situation!! By not allowing a replacement option for a wheatland/standard tractor with 34 inch rims. There is nothing wrong with allowing a wheatland to pull with 16.9X34 tires!! Thats my opinion,, Since the 14-34 is not available, thats the only option they have!! 18.4X34,,, NO!! Cause that is above a tire size that is still in production!! They are not much wider than a 15.5 bar to bar across, they are very close to being the same height as a 15.5X38, (compared new to new) Then there is the guy who wont pull against the 16.9 tire,,, cause all he has is 15.5X38,,, well, nothing you could do bout it,, that tractor was offered with 38"s so take the good with the bad, and have some more pullers in the classes! Dont like it, stay home! Whats the difference? 2 or 3 more tractor sit home, but you pick back up those lost numbers for the wheatlands returning to the track. They took the availability away from the wheatlands, and that will keep them out leagally!! They know, there is no one out there in pulling, thats still running a 14-34 in this area, (other than Barenie). Least he would get to run right?? To me,, thats out of line, out of order, and out of their minds. THEN,,,,, NCIATPA takes away classes. Classes that where I pull in, are no longer available. We used to pull 0-4500#s now, we start at 4000. But, they give the heavy mods more classes to run in!! WTF is up with that??? Robbing Peter to pay Paul! Where we pulled 3500 which is exactly what we built our H"s massey 101 etc etc for,,, are forced to pull with tractors that will outclass them in weight. Lots of hard earned time and money, that now will be no longer have a place to pull. Been told,, well, why not just run 4000? NO WAY!! They take our classes away, just to give them to the heavy tractors??? Why, what for?? Now I get to watch the same 5 tractors pull even more, and be happy. WHOOOPPEEE!!! Out of line, Out of order, and out of their minds. You want BS, Ill give it to ya!! you want out of line, Ill give ya that too! Make rules to accomidate a board member,, well,,, HAHAHAHA!!! We have to give em that,, thats the law!! Dont like it, move on?? HA! You wanna play games, you wanna play with rules, tires, whatever,,,,, you go do it. When you get beat by all those rules, better stay home! Im out of line? BS!!! Get real! ChadS

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minnie ub

02-12-2006 14:54:30




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 Re: You want out of line??? in reply to ChadS, 02-11-2006 09:00:11  
I KNOW BOARD MEMBERS AND OFFICIERS OF CLUBS PUT IN ALOT OF TIME AND MY HAT IS OFF TO THEM. BUT GUYS LETS ADMITT ONE THINK HERE WHEN RULES ARE CHANGED IT IS USUALLY TO SLOW THE DOMINATE PULLER DOWN PLAIN AND SIMPLY. BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT.WHAT MAKES USAP AND JOHN LAMPKIN SO SUCCESSFUL. HE HAS A LIMITED NUMBER OF RULES AND HE ENFORCES THEM. WEIGHT ,TIRE SIZE AND CUT,HITCH HEIGHT, RPMS AND SPEED, YOU GET THOSE THINGS IN ORDER GO PULL AND HAVE FUN. WE GOT SOME MORE IMPORTANT ISSUE AT HAND LIKE FAIR OFFICIELS THAT DON'T SEE A BIG ENOUGH CROWD TO WARRENT A ANTIQUE TRACTOR PULL AND BRING NEW PEOPLE INTO THE SPORT.

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770 puller

02-12-2006 16:13:49




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 Re: You want out of line??? in reply to minnie ub, 02-12-2006 14:54:30  
We had about 10 pullers that wanted to start a new pulling class # 2700 12mph, and # 3200 12mph,
but when I brought it up to a member, he told me that it would never fly. That left a big ? mark on me, thinking out loud. Why limit super classes to the heavier pullers? What kinda growth can a club have if they do not see the big picture. TTPA, a new club that just started this year offers both of those classes, so why did the big picture get missed with this issue, might be that those members did not have anything to pull in that type of class, and could take away from the protected ones. I am all in favor of helping any club grow, so if I have a legitimate question do not tell me that its not going to happen. It did happen and we are going to have a blast!
Make it fun for the pullers, not just for the board members and any club will excel with huge growth.
One thing in closing, I want antique tractor pulling to grow, for my children and their children, the sport can not grow if the pullers' opinions and wants are not taken into consideration. Who am I ? Just a rookie I guess.

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massey333

02-12-2006 07:03:38




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 Re: You want out of line??? in reply to ChadS, 02-11-2006 09:00:11  
ChadS I don't agree with a lot of what you say or say you do but this tire deal plus under weight rule in your club have got to be the stupest thing I have heard in all my years of pulling.I have 3 tractors I can pull on either 14.9-38(200"),15.5-38(189"),16.9-38(252").I pull the 15.5s 90% of the time and the other two the other 10%.Two of the clubs rules say 16.9-38 max but my 15.5 45 degree BFGs or 15.5 23 degree Deep Treads are in the winners circle more than any one pair of 16.9s,so this bull of the 14-34 (16.9-34) at 229" is beyond crazy.By NATPA-USAP- COATPA RULES THE 16.9s ARE IN THE SAME CLASS.I also pull 2 standard treads on 18.4-30s(258") and 18.4-34s(284")and in the same Wt. class the 15.5s will be within a few Ft.+ or - in the end.As far as the UNDER WEIGHT rule I guess I would have been kicked out a lot because I don't trust electronic scales that far especilly when you have to go across 2 sets.THe last time I pulled at Princeton,the second set was 175# under the first set and my Wts. were 800' away and I couldn't go get them.Sorry for the long post because like someone else said I don't have a dog in this fight,but some of the stupidness in remarks shown by some,I will have to agree with you this time.

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BUDD

02-12-2006 07:28:08




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 Re: You want out of line??? in reply to massey333, 02-12-2006 07:03:38  
massey333

As I stated earlyer we did change the under weight rule. No one will be DQ for being under weight As far as the tire deal You half to have a stopping point somewhere and ours is 15.5/38 (14.9/38 are alowed). When we made this rule there were some 15 tractors that were not happy with the one wheatland pulling with bigger tires (and being very doment). So we change the rule to meet the "clubs needs". This rule change was not directed towards anyone, but just tring to make it equal for all. Our rule do state that you will need to use the same diamiter that was used for that tractor. There are some wheatland that can not pull with our rules, but again we just did not have but one at that time. For our club we did the right thing at that time. We have a DARN good club that has a good turn out, a good pay back, and is making a little bit of money for improvements. And to ANYONE that thinks being on the board is not a pain in the a$$ needs to try it just once. If anyone would like a copy of our rules and schedule send me an email.

BUDD (Board member nciatpa)

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massey333

02-12-2006 09:51:39




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 Re: You want out of line??? in reply to BUDD, 02-12-2006 07:28:08  
Thank you for the reply.What I was getting at was the 16.9-30 and 34" are the same tire size family as 14.9-38&15.5-38.I just threw the 18.4 thing in for comparison sake.We(clubs)went thru this argument.14-15 yrs.ago and the 14-30-34 &15-30-34 tractors were 8000# and up tractors and not really not too many 14.9-15.5 tractors involved.So if you want to STOP ALL STANDARD TREAD Tractors,why not put it in your rules,STANDARD TREAD TRACTORS NOT ALLOWED.JD720 and 770 summed it up better than I probably have.That is why new clubs are formed and old ones die until the people who killed the old join the new and then kill it.

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supermpuller

02-12-2006 07:47:39




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 Re: You want out of line??? in reply to BUDD, 02-12-2006 07:28:08  
You need to allow press-steel wheels in all classes, if 1 tractor can use them all tractors should be able to use them.



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JD hauler

02-12-2006 13:25:21




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 Re: You want out of line??? in reply to supermpuller, 02-12-2006 07:47:39  
cant do that for div 1 tin wheels and hubs are not in the parts books for many tractors, IE, JD 50 -730. you"ll get tossed in the stock class or should.



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B BARENIE

02-11-2006 20:29:06




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 Re: You want out of line??? /HEY CHAD ! in reply to ChadS, 02-11-2006 09:00:11  
CHADS:

Don't always mean to jump down your throat, sometimes your next in line !
I had a friend put it to me this way friday night, ya got a couple of guys going at a couple of guys, and thats the way it really is !
I've pulled the sm against bigger rubber, and it's an unfair situation on balance > (forget h.p.) A good driver with great balance and equal h.p. can win over other tractors with equal h.p and big rubber, but the deck is stacked against smaller rubber ! (psi) or ground pressure the tire creates !

Any fool who has seen a pair of old 14-34's would realize, what they measure in regards to thread width ! 14" (plus) A pair of 16.9's 16" +
15-5's 15" +
I've contacted the board members, and all they can see is red thompson's old g moline on 18-4-34's
As I have told red ! his G has never driven by my tractor because he abused the rules !
In this case, I am not asking to take advantage of a rule or abuse a club member or board member !

But because of a fued that will always continue, tractors and weight classes will be used to some ones advantage !
I'll close: i'M ENJOYING PUTTING MY 264 BLOCK BACK TOGETHER, IT TAKES TIME, WHY RUSH THE FINISHED PRODUCT ! (FOR A SET OF RINGS) A (VALVE JOB) i COULD GO PULL WHILE I'M FINISHING MY REAL PROJECT !
Who would'nt anyone want that opportunity !

It's really okay, no one pulled my frtont tooth when I wanted a wisdom tooh pulled !

Some people just don't no the difference !
I'll find the archives, on the conversion of tires,
new numbers old numbers ! And in the end we'll all learn !

The most important part is those who are always so quick to say no !
Just got home from indy, Daughter broke a middle finger on BEAM in competition !

Went on to compete on floor, with a full rush of tears from pain !! I took one look walked down on the floor and pulled her out of the last competition !
Her words were (dad) don't be disapointed !

And I further need to argue tires !!!

Thanks chad , have a good sunday !!

bud barenie

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720Deere

02-12-2006 09:08:01




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 Re: You want out of line??? /HEY CHAD ! in reply to B BARENIE, 02-11-2006 20:29:06  
You keep referencing ground pressure and psi when talking about bigger tires. The opposite is true. For the same weight tractor a wider or even taller tire will produce less psi of ground pressure than a small tire. More weight focused on less area equals greater PSI. Less tire area with the same amount of weight equals more PSI.

What you are calling ground pressure is actually the traction surface of the tire. Bigger tire puts more rubber in contact with the ground at a lesser psi.

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Lamont

02-12-2006 02:55:43




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 Re: You want out of line??? /HEY CHAD ! in reply to B BARENIE, 02-11-2006 20:29:06  
third party image

I don"t have a dog in this particular hunt, but just to clear up some misunderstandings on tire measurements please refer to the diagram as you read this explanation. This is a cross-section of a tire. (My sketching skills are not that great but I think you can get the picture.) The numbers in a tire measurement such as 14.9 x 38 designate two dimensions on the tire. The 38 is, of course, the diameter of the bead of the tire, in inches, where it rests on the rim. The 14.9 is the OVERALL WIDTH of the tire, in inches, (outside of sidewall to outside of sidewall). Neither number refers to tread width, or width of the bars. Actual tread widths usually run 1 to 2 inches narrower than the overall width of the tire but there is no number on the tire that designates tread or bar width.

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J2

02-12-2006 07:46:16




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 Re: You want out of line??? /HEY CHAD ! in reply to Lamont, 02-12-2006 02:55:43  
From the miller tire site..
third party image
third party image



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Lamont

02-12-2006 12:15:55




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 Re: You want out of line??? /HEY CHAD ! in reply to J2, 02-12-2006 07:46:16  
Hey! My drawing is almost as good as theirs. Thanks.



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b barenie

02-12-2006 13:55:06




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 Re: You want out of line??? /lamont /HOW DO I PRIN in reply to Lamont, 02-12-2006 12:15:55  
HEY LAMONT !!!!!

LOOK AT THE OLD 14-34 COMPARED TO NEW 14.9 !!

THANKS FOR THE DRAWING'S AND INFO !!!!!

HOW DO I PRINT THAT OFF THE COMPUTER !!!!!

ALSO THANK'S FOR TAKING THE TIME !!!

i'm not nutttsssss sssss sssss !!!!



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Lamont

02-12-2006 15:25:33




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 Re: You want out of line??? /lamont /HOW DO I PRIN in reply to b barenie, 02-12-2006 13:55:06  
Yeah. Most people don't realize that the 16.9 only has about 14 to 14.5 inches of tread width, and the 15.5 and 14.9 have about 13 to 13.5 inches of tread width. The old 14-34 is a lot more tire than the newer 14.9 when comparing the ground contact area. In fact, it's almost identical to the 16.9x34. To print those images you can just hold the pointer over the image and right click which will pull down a menu. Somewhere on that menu should say "print picture" or "print image." Click on that.

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BUDD

02-11-2006 14:04:47




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 Re: You want out of line??? in reply to ChadS, 02-11-2006 09:00:11  
Chads;

Ya know I have a lot to say to you for what you just said, but I will refrain from saying what is really on my mind at this time. The only thing that I will say right now is 14/34 tires are not legal in our club rules. 14/34 is the same as 16.9/34 new tire. One other thing that was changed is the being DQ for under weight. You will not be DQ for that this year in eather Farm or Mod class.

Bud Dawson (a board member of NCIATPA)

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770 puller

02-11-2006 10:49:50




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 Re: You want out of line??? in reply to ChadS, 02-11-2006 09:00:11  
Usap rules are the best in the country, other pulling clubs should follow to keep things going strong. Clubs here in North Carolina change rules for board members. What does that do, well it starts new pulling clubs!
When a club changes rules, for board members or protecting someone at the end of the season so that they can win the points is just crazy!
We pullers pay alot of $$$$$, to be played.
Some clubs will loose this year, and some will gain, and some will start there own club and hope that they do it in a way that is fair to all.
BG

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LW

02-11-2006 13:25:10




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 Re: You want out of line??? in reply to 770 puller, 02-11-2006 10:49:50  
If it worked like that I would have changed a lot of things years ago, but thats what everyone thinks oh the evil board members that get too the pull 3-4 hrs early and are there a 1-2 hrs after its over 20-24 hr days lots of times. Spend countless money and time of their own to support this sport and get constant ridicule, let me tell you do a strecth of time as a active board member in a large orginization and you will change your mind. You can't please everyone thats the worst thing you could possibly attempt but what do I know I have only been at this about 18 years.

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dctom

02-11-2006 16:09:08




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 Re: You want out of line??? in reply to LW, 02-11-2006 13:25:10  
I am with you L W been on the board and do nothing but chatch hades all the time, I beleive we have the best little club in the country but every one wants tochange it to be just like all the rest andthat will run a bunh of guys out had ovwe 2800 hooks last year and had a profit for the club to better the equipment but they still complain dctom



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770 puller

02-11-2006 14:54:35




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 Re: You want out of line??? in reply to LW, 02-11-2006 13:25:10  
LW for the record that was not directed towards you in any way! Not to offend anyone, just my observation, at local pulls. But I could say that every organization could use imput from the pullers that support them. I have been pulling since 1972, that would make 34 years I have been pulling, I am getting old! Yes I have been on the other side of the fence too, and have put my time in. Now I just spend alot of time working on Pinky, another pinky-D 14 ac, a 101 massey, a 101 jr, thats 4 tractors. That cost me alot of time and $$$$, but I do enjoy what I do for my wife and I and strongly suport local pulling clubs. If I did not enjoy what I was doing and did not think that I could not have some type of impact I would just sell everything.
I am a member of the Foothills Antique Power assoc, (212 members, founded 3 yrs ago)and pinkpower is the secretary of the club so we too put in many hours all year long.
Satisfy everyone? Not likely. However we could adopt rules that have a long standing success, USAP is one good example of a growing organization. I would venture to say that not many of their board members pull, as they are busy making a bigger and better pull than the last by putting in their time. Their growth is directly related to the enjoyment felt by their pullers and supporters/ If someone feels they are treated unfairly they will not continue to support. I am not sure why but at times my wife and I feel as if we are checked more frequently than other pullers that have been involved longer with that particular club. If the white glove is neccessary, than make it neccessary for all pullers to be fair. WHAT DO PULLERS REALLY WANT? FAIRNESS, AND AN OPPORTUNITY TO WIN. Enforce rules with one, enforce with all. If RPM check is called a puller should not have an opportunity to turn it back down to make it legal. If the tractor doesnt pass the first test, they should be DQ'd. Again just my observation.
BG

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ChadS

02-11-2006 11:23:07




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 Re: You want out of line??? in reply to 770 puller, 02-11-2006 10:49:50  
You just got a standing ovation. ChadS



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supermpuller

02-11-2006 09:54:21




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 Re: You want out of line??? in reply to ChadS, 02-11-2006 09:00:11  
Had some friends pull at one of your pulls , one had press steel rims on a SM ,they wouldn't let him pull, the other won a class but got DQ for being to light, he was 25 lbs under the limit, I can see dq for being to heavy but to light thats BS, get some rules thats fair to everyone and some pullers might come and pull with your club, its not going to happen the way its being run now.



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ChadS

02-11-2006 11:21:42




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 Re: You want out of line??? in reply to supermpuller, 02-11-2006 09:54:21  
I remember that. Been there too, DQ'd for too light. Thats not the case anymore,,, except in farm stock classes. Mods pull distance now, farm stock did not change. I dont get it though,,, John Deere,, Pressed steel rims, Massey Harris, pressed steel rims, Olivers, Pressed steel rims, IH, stuck with cast iron! 99% of the tractors pull, have pressed steel wheels in farm stock. They wanted more tractors to come pull with us,, they took light classes out of the schedule, and gave them to the heavy classes,, gives em more classes to run in,,, ya know,,, They could have went to 1958 and picked up a load of newer tractors, setup to pull in northern indiana, but, nope,, Molines afraid of 460-560 and what ever comes in,,, They complian about no competition in these classes,, but, its those who dominate the classes run everybody off, or simply,, theres none left that hasnt learned the lesson. Or, the outsiders that come in and do well, get hassled and nit picked to death to the point where they dont wanna show up anymore. We had A good friend that pulls a M farmall, that used a C clevis on his hitch,, He was 2 inches under the 18 high hitch height, he done well with it,, first year out,, now, new rule,, NO C CLEVIS! Only flat top mounted clevis, or twisted clevis. He was to the point of quitting the first year. Over a straight C clevis!! I agree,, adopt a new set of rules,, that way, no room for little improvements. CHad

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OK

02-11-2006 17:58:10




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 Re: You want out of line??? in reply to ChadS, 02-11-2006 11:21:42  
Ok super H why do you INT. guys always want to stop at 58 and say everyone is afraid of a 460?The first pull i ever won was on a U moline with a G motor and i had to beat a 460 with a holley 4 barrel on it turning 6000 rpms 460s dont bother MMs



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Terry460

04-02-2006 08:06:58




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 Re: You want out of line??? in reply to OK, 02-11-2006 17:58:10  
i got a farmall 460 diesel the fuel turned up pumpin 90 or so horse power and i out pulled a MM g pretty easy.



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Dieselbear

02-12-2006 04:05:01




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 Re: You want out of line??? in reply to OK, 02-11-2006 17:58:10  
I'll 2nd that one.He mite want to put that the other way around. I'll put my MM's up to either one, any day.



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ChadS

02-13-2006 07:21:42




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 Re: You want out of line??? in reply to Dieselbear, 02-12-2006 04:05:01  
1958 is the year break for national clubs. I threw the 460-560 thing in there cause Im a IH guy. I think a good JD would give a MM a run. In a div 3 class. Those 6 cyl MM engines are bout the same size as a Semi Truck engine! So sure, power is natural for em! Ive seen JD"s do some damage to MM"s on the tracks,, More than IH, Oliver, etc etc! I know of a CASE that would run with A G6 though,,, 58 lets them in too,,,, ChadS

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ncdiesel48

02-12-2006 06:31:48




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 Re: You want out of line??? in reply to Dieselbear, 02-12-2006 04:05:01  
Only because you done been run out of everywhere else.



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Dieselbear

02-12-2006 10:30:42




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 Re: You want out of line??? in reply to ncdiesel48, 02-12-2006 06:31:48  
If you win, that's what they try to do. But I guess you wouldn't know



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ncdiesel48

02-12-2006 15:55:25




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 Re: You want out of line??? in reply to Dieselbear, 02-12-2006 10:30:42  
Yes Glenn I have won and I have pulled against you and I know the GBD is one bad tractor and at one pull I actuallt defended you when someone was arguing the size of tires on the GBD I wasn't being critical abound just pointing out a fact. You have gotten messed with before.



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Dieselbear

02-14-2006 07:32:30




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 Re: You want out of line??? in reply to ncdiesel48, 02-12-2006 15:55:25  
Yea, alot. The tire size thing goes on all the time, that's why I keep the books with me.When they see it in writing it puts a stop to it



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