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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

more about cam degrees

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52 G

02-22-2006 09:15:26




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Installing reground cam in G centerline needs to be 106 degrees, but when degreeing it comes out to 112 degrees. Is this 6 degrees enough to lose power, and how much would one tooth make in degrees, also is this ahead of time are behind time, any help is appreciated.




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Drew

02-22-2006 19:21:48




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 Re: more about cam degrees in reply to 52 G, 02-22-2006 09:15:26  
I would try to get it closer to that 106* number. On my "A", the holes in the camshaft and gear only line up in one spot. You can try rotating the cam one bolt hole from the stock arrangement and drill new holes in the cam gear. I have found that sometimes you can split teeth this way(but your stock punchmarks for gear alignment are out in never-never land). On an A, each tooth is 13 1/3 degrees and I would guess a "G" is simular. Then to fine tune it, you can shim the camgear out from where it mounts on the camshaft. Due to the helical cut on the gear, this will slightly affect your cam timing.

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jd b puller

02-23-2006 08:41:26




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 Re: more about cam degrees in reply to Drew, 02-22-2006 19:21:48  
Hey Drew, isn't that 13.33 degrees divided by 2? == 6.5 degrees. Cam only moves 1/2 as fast as crank.

My brain isn't working quite right yet...maybe that's not right.



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Drew

02-23-2006 10:22:38




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 Re: more about cam degrees in reply to jd b puller, 02-23-2006 08:41:26  
You want to work in terms of crankshaft degrees. Lets take this example of being at 112* and wanting to go to 106*. Think of it as keeping the camshaft in the same place, but moving the crankshaft the 6* to get to the proper place.

Hopefully that was a tad clearer than mud :-)



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jd b puller

02-22-2006 17:50:21




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 Re: more about cam degrees in reply to 52 G, 02-22-2006 09:15:26  
On the B, 1 tooth got it really close to the 106#. Remember to set the governor gear one tooth off the other way so your mag or dist will be right



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REDEYE

02-22-2006 10:12:42




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 Re: more about cam degrees in reply to 52 G, 02-22-2006 09:15:26  
If you took your measurements with respect to tdc then the 106 number means that the cam should be at max lift 106 deg after top dead center. if you are at 112 ATDC then you are 6 degrees retarted. this normally drops cylinder pressure as the intake valve closes later than it needs to, possibly loosing a few hp. you can adjust the timing by shifting the teeth. to get the angular adjustment each tooth will make take 360/N where N is the number of teeth on the cam.

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52 G

02-23-2006 09:49:21




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 Re: more about cam degrees in reply to REDEYE, 02-22-2006 10:12:42  
Thanks for the help, i believe the cam gear had 58 teeth so divided by 360 would be 6.2 degrees per tooth, thanks again.



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Drew

02-23-2006 10:26:39




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 Re: more about cam degrees in reply to 52 G, 02-23-2006 09:49:21  
If there are 58 teeth on the cam gear, that means there is 29 teeth on the crank gear. 360/29 is 12.4137* per tooth. Think in terms of crankshaft degrees.



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REDEYE

02-23-2006 11:58:30




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 Re: more about cam degrees in reply to Drew, 02-23-2006 10:26:39  
Right but there is a 2 to one reduction so this effectively doubles the resolution of each crank tooth. so if you wanted to figure the degrees with respect to the crank it would be 360/29/2=6.2 degrees. with respect to the cam would be 360/58=6.2 Think of it in terms of reference frames if it is still confusing.



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jd b puller

02-23-2006 19:08:27




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 Re: more about cam degrees in reply to REDEYE, 02-23-2006 11:58:30  
Drew, I think Redeye is right. Seems like on the B it was at 112 and one tooth made it go to 106. 6 degrees or so...



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Mike n Mo

02-23-2006 21:06:58




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 Re: more about cam degrees in reply to jd b puller, 02-23-2006 19:08:27  
I gotta agree with Drew on this one. When you degree the cam, you are referencing everything to crankshaft location. If you have the intake lobe of the cam centered on the lifter, picture leaving the cam stationary and moving the CRANK one tooth, NOT moving the CAM one tooth. This will result in the 112* change (1 tooth of the crank gear) instead of 6* (1 toooth of the cam gear). Mike



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jd b puller

02-24-2006 13:26:56




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 Re: more about cam degrees in reply to Mike n Mo, 02-23-2006 21:06:58  
52G will you hurry up and check this thing out!!! The suspense is killing me! Check it with the notches lined up and then move it one tooth and see what you get. Memory tells me the B went from 112 to 106, but what Drew says almost sorta kinda is starting to make sense.

:-)



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