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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

Why doesn't NATPA UP the years allowed?

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570puller

12-31-2007 07:06:23




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I was just wondering why nobody wants to up the year limit in NATPA Divisions II, III, IV. If they just went up a couple of years to allow the tractors upto and including 59 models - wouldn't they have alot more hooks??? Just something to consider??




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Jim Johnson

01-02-2008 02:44:31




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 Re: Why doesn't NATPA UP the years allowed? in reply to 570puller, 12-31-2007 07:06:23  
EFV and Gary Baker have the answers that are correct. Right now in Div. V 5500 and up it's GVI or else. If you allow just one year newer in Div. IV and Div. III it will be the same.

There's a lot of people that have worked hard to keep this club together and most of us that pull Antiques appreciate those who came before us and started this so, for the most part, we have a place to pull in the winter time. By allowing newer tractors in the same classes would run away more pullers than it would gain. All the money that has been spent on engines to get them where they are would be for nothing and the club would be gone.

I like all kinds of pulling and would be interested in seeing an addition of another class, the fuel prices do have the hook count down, but I'm not sure it would work because of what has already been said.

Jim

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Field Boss

01-01-2008 14:01:48




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 Re: Why doesn't NATPA UP the years allowed? in reply to 570puller, 12-31-2007 07:06:23  
#1 I kinda agree with moving the limit up a couple years. #2 you John Deere people got to learn that John Deeres are junk. #3 Farmalls, Olivers, MM, Fords, you better beat the hell out of the Jd's.



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4010

01-01-2008 16:14:46




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 Re: Why doesn't NATPA UP the years allowed? in reply to Field Boss, 01-01-2008 14:01:48  
I like the sense of Humor the Field Lost has. I just enjoy pulling my John Deere Junk (Your words not mine.)against all those on your list, and walking away with the trophy and prize money while they stand their in digust. The John Deere's set the standard, because they are always the brand that gets bad mouthed, if they were not a threat, they would not get all the bad publicity. I have friends that pull all different colors/brands, if they win the pull I shake their hand and tell them good pull. I don't feel the need to bad mouth them, because I did not properly prepare my setup for the pull.

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mm-r47

01-01-2008 08:35:32




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 Re: Why doesn't NATPA UP the years allowed? in reply to 570puller, 12-31-2007 07:06:23  
what gets me in div.3 jd's can use power blocks and those hiesler heads but no oliver 12 port no mm-800
and div.4 and div.5 tractors any more have about the same cubes and still have to have different RPM's thats just not to right either. Or no 800 jugs in div.4 but you can spend the money and sleeve u or m-5 jugs bigger than 800 and still use them in div.4. Right 5-star?



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I Hate Crybabies. (IHC)

01-01-2008 06:11:45




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 Re: Why doesn't NATPA UP the years allowed? in reply to 570puller, 12-31-2007 07:06:23  
The real reason is because the IH crybabies are deathly afraid of ANY John Deere with more than 2 cylinders. They know and fear that they will get their worthless IH crybaby a$$es stomped into oblivion. Where they belong!



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560 Farmall Puller

01-01-2008 14:18:38




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 Re: Why doesn't NATPA UP the years allowed? in reply to I Hate Crybabies. (IHC), 01-01-2008 06:11:45  
Well I can say the same thing about JD people they dont want 6 cyl. Farmalls in so thats why they keep it at 1957.You can't give me a logical reason as to why Div.1 on up is not 1959 and back. I can see not moving it up to 1960 but come on let all tractors from the 50's in any class.



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jd b puller

01-02-2008 14:44:19




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 Re: Why doesn't NATPA UP the years allowed? in reply to 560 Farmall Puller, 01-01-2008 14:18:38  
560 - Why would you be OK with 1959, but not with 1960?



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Thanks For proving that s

01-02-2008 12:20:18




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 Re: Why doesn't NATPA UP the years allowed? in reply to 560 Farmall Puller, 01-01-2008 14:18:38  
You are a typical IH crybaby moron. It`s ok to move the year, just don`t move it far enough to let the 3010 or 4010 crush your precious junk 460/560 that look like bloody turds.



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supermpuller

01-01-2008 12:31:17




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 Re: Why doesn't NATPA UP the years allowed? in reply to I Hate Crybabies. (IHC), 01-01-2008 06:11:45  
Let the 4010's in ,the IH's MM's and Olivers will still kick the JDs butt.



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FAT TRACTOR

12-31-2007 21:08:19




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 Re: Why doesn't NATPA UP the years allowed? in reply to 570puller, 12-31-2007 07:06:23  
NCTPA!!! NATIONAL CLASSIC TRACTOR PULLERS ASSOCIATION???? DON'T EVEN SOUND RIGHT!



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Gary from Muleshoe

12-31-2007 14:39:23




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 Re: Why doesn't NATPA UP the years allowed? in reply to 570puller, 12-31-2007 07:06:23  
I think I have the solution for you. You can go one of two ways, #1. Get yourself an older tractor or #2. Start your own club for type tractors you want to pull. If you choose #2 you will soon be pulling against 200, 300, or 400 HP tractors.
That is why NATPA has the rule they do.



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H Puller

12-31-2007 14:47:50




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 Re: Why doesn't NATPA UP the years allowed? in reply to Gary from Muleshoe, 12-31-2007 14:39:23  
I believe we have the 200HP+ tractors pulling now in Div IV and V. But at 3.5mph in Div III - Just how much advantage is a 175hp tractor going to have over a 125HP Tractor? I'm still talking no Turbo's Here. That could open a can of worms I don't even want to see. Now there are you 200hp+ tractors that run wild. At 3.5MPH - if you only have 125hp, and can spin out at the end of the track just below blowing the horn, a tractor with 200hp isn't going to be any better. Thats why they have the 3.5mph limit. To keep it even, so why does the year of tractor affect that?

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EFV

12-31-2007 13:52:10




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 Re: Why doesn't NATPA UP the years allowed? in reply to 570puller, 12-31-2007 07:06:23  
From a competion standpoint,keeping the year break at 1957 keeps several killer combinations out of the mix. While 460-560 IH's and 4010-4020's would be a welcome addition,as well as allowing several other makes to increase rpm,two tractors would make it a contest for second place. These tractors are the GVI/G705 MM and the D19 AC. The big MM's can be lightened considerably and the D19 is the first turbo diesel..the way the rules are written,updating to the 301 AC would be legal. There is more potential in these two than all the others combined. The other reason for not changing the rules is that it's the National "Antique Tractor Puller" Association..not the National "Antique Tractor" Puller Association..lol

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Drew

01-02-2008 10:51:11




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 Re: Why doesn't NATPA UP the years allowed? in reply to EFV, 12-31-2007 13:52:10  
The club I pull with in the summer doesnt have a year limit, and ya know what, newer tractors dont domintate like you are suggesting. ITS 3.5MPH, THE AGE OF THE TRACTOR DOESNT MEAN SQUAT! I pull a John Deere, but pull against newer tractors like: 460 IH w/ a 301ci, a D-17 w/ a 6 cyl gas (D-19)engine and a Cockshutt 570...and no one dominates. One tractor will win one week, and another the next. All of these tractors have won points champoinships, but they have all been beat as well. I like the variety of tractors our club has, and not seeing the same type of tractor 10 times in a class.

If you have a speed limit, then TRACTOR AGE DOESNT MATTER!!! Speed limits simplify things a bunch!!

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jp88

12-31-2007 14:32:53




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 Re: Why doesn't NATPA UP the years allowed? in reply to EFV, 12-31-2007 13:52:10  
Thats right but time is going on and on and all the tractors are getting older including the 57's on up,where are they going to have a place to pull if ever?The JD two cylinder pullers are at a disadvantage because of the years made,they don't have a newer style engine to install.Bunches of the inline engine tractors are already running later model engines getting the advantage.How old does a tractor have to be to be considered an antique tractor?I for one would like to see early turboed D19's and others have a place to pull.

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H Puller

12-31-2007 13:55:18




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 Re: Why doesn't NATPA UP the years allowed? in reply to EFV, 12-31-2007 13:52:10  
I don't buy that - at 3.5mph - what difference does it make????



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JD hauler

12-31-2007 19:48:20




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 Re: Why doesn't NATPA UP the years allowed? in reply to H Puller, 12-31-2007 13:55:18  
I only have like 60 to 70 hp, and consistently pull with alot higher hp tractors and often beat them, or lose only by say 1 to 6 ft, I spent $5000 and they spent $15000 to 30000, you do the math for the payout and I will be glad to lose on that margin. The 3 1/2 mile per hour is the factor for sure.



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560 Farmall Puller

12-31-2007 13:38:26




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 Re: Why doesn't NATPA UP the years allowed? in reply to 570puller, 12-31-2007 07:06:23  
I have e-mailed the NATPA on this and have never recieved a response. I pull a 560 Farmall and asked why they would not allow them in Div. 3. Our local group in Ohio allows them in Div.2. You cant tell me a 50 year old tractor is not an antique, and I dont want to pull in Div. 5 with 200 HP tractors.



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Gary Baker

12-31-2007 12:33:04




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 Re: Why doesn't NATPA UP the years allowed? in reply to 570puller, 12-31-2007 07:06:23  
The NATPA is an Antique club. If they were to change and allow newer tractors, it would'nt be a Antique club anymore. Allowing newer tractors would drive away the Antiques and kill the club. But I do think that a new division allowing say up to 1965 in that class only could work. To make this happen someone needs to propose this at the annual meeting. Magority rules. Campaine this idea and you might get it through.

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Old Rusty

12-31-2007 13:22:44




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 Re: Why doesn't NATPA UP the years allowed? in reply to Gary Baker, 12-31-2007 12:33:04  
I pull with a 1937 Case CC and do OK against newer tractors as long as the speed limit is 4mph or less. Even do OK when some of the others are running larger tires. if tractors are the same weight and the speed is the same I'll pull with them. May not always win but they will know I was there. Our club uses 59 and older rules.



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jd b puller

12-31-2007 10:09:48




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 Re: Why doesn't NATPA UP the years allowed? in reply to 570puller, 12-31-2007 07:06:23  
I believe there were significant advances in engine technology about this time. (50's). From a competition stance, In Div II/III, I wouldn't care, RPM's ground speed, and weight even this out fairly well. From a nostalgic and in general "antique feel", I would oppose letting the newer stuff in. They have their place in the "hot farm" classes and the like. As stated before, it's called "ANTIQUE tractor pulling", and while I understand that stuff made in the 60's are still antiques, they aren't the same caliber of tractor as those made in the 30s, 40s, and 50's.
I'm sure I speak for a lot of us that grew up on old tractors. I don't have the luxury of using them on the farm, as the farm's gone at this point, and land's too expensive to buy a farm. The only thing I can use the old iron for on my 1 acre lot is pulling and parading, and I don't like parading.

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Just a puller

12-31-2007 09:40:44




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 Re: Why doesn't NATPA UP the years allowed? in reply to 570puller, 12-31-2007 07:06:23  
I agree that they shouldn't increase it. I don't pull NATPA either. I know if I have my tractor and all the money I have in it, I cannot hold a candle to a stock new tractor I bet. We spend alot of time and money trying to get power out of old technology and just to get beat by a newer tractor? It would be detrimental to OUR sport. Why would anyone want to pull an antique anymore? I think the extra division for them would be nice. It is ANTIQUE tractor pulling. If you want to pull newer tractors, I'm sure there are brush pulls that have farm stock classes.

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570Puller

12-31-2007 10:10:33




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 Re: Why doesn't NATPA UP the years allowed? in reply to Just a puller, 12-31-2007 09:40:44  
Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to get into a class where I think I can beat everyone else because I have a newer tractor. But - I would like to pull with the group because they have alot of nice fellas there to pull with. I like the idea of a Div 6 with the 5mph classes. That sounds good. It wouldn't mess with the classes they already have - but would still allow fellas like me who have spent alot of money working on their tractor - to come and pull. Good idea!

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Gary from Muleshoe

12-31-2007 08:08:01




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 Re: Why doesn't NATPA UP the years allowed? in reply to 570puller, 12-31-2007 07:06:23  
It may be that any tractor newer than 57 is not considered an antique thus the name NATIONAL ANTIQUE TRACTOR PULLERS ASSOCIATION. Just my thoughts.



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570Puller

12-31-2007 09:06:41




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 Re: Why doesn't NATPA UP the years allowed? in reply to Gary from Muleshoe, 12-31-2007 08:08:01  
I can go along with the name thing. But - how many years has it been since we declared 1957 and older antiques? Don't you think we should move up and the years move along? I'm not saying we should up the year limit to 1975 or anything, but wouldn't be nice to see some 560's, 3010's, 180's and tractor like those in the Div III classes? Think of how many more tractors would be able to come to the pulls. And the more tractors in a class, the higher the payout to the winner. Although - maybe thats the problem - maybe the majority do not want to pull against these new of tractors because they are afraid of loosing? Just to tell you where I'm coming from - I'm building a 570 Cockshutt for Div III. I can pull with my local group - but cannot go the the NATPA pulls because of the year limit. I really like the group of people who are NATPA and would really like to attend some of their pulls. But I don't have near what it takes to run Division V. And I don't think I'm the only one out here with this point of view. Just a thought - not here to offend anyone in anyway!

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NATPA doesn't want our mo

01-01-2008 17:27:46




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 Re: Why doesn't NATPA UP the years allowed? in reply to 570Puller, 12-31-2007 09:06:41  
570Puller- I'm in the same boat as you are. I pull locally in Div II & III with a '67 with a gas four cylinder. It makes me laugh at the ignorance of most of these guys because, as soon as you mention raising the age limit they only think of 2255's, 6030's and 1066's blowing smoke. They forget that there were tractors built after '57 that were below 100 horse power. LOL. Thus, the comments like "That's why there are Hot Farm classes, or- make a Div 6 10 mph class, or even my favorite- Join the NTPA". Just because it was built after '57 doesn't mean that a tractor will compete at those levels. Seems to me, when I started doing this, these now "antique" tractors weren't even 30 yrs old yet, but were still considered antiques by some rules. But, now one of my tractors is 41yrs old and it still isn't an antique, because the definition of an antique is 51 yrs old as of today. Jerry Leek, the last president of the NATPA, proposed a change in the age, but hit resistance. BTW, Thanks again, Jerry, for having progressive thinking, unlike others. I keep hearing, "join the club and vote" from some also. Why????? Give you my dues to vote but when the vote is over, I still can't pull. Then you'll have my money and tell me that membership is growing- there's no reason to change the rules. Not to start a color war here, because I don't feel it should be, we all want to pull, right? But, look at the year break, 1957. Then 1959 for Div 5. Hmmmmm, kinda favors the red guys doesn't it? Most of the other brands had a 6cyl by then, so it can't be them, right? But, the red guys needed a 6cyl for Div 5 because their blessed little M wouldn't cut the mustard at that level. Just remember what IHC stands for, "I Hate Competition". I actually feel bad for JD guys. They are intentionally limited to two cylinders by the rules.

Here's another point to look at it, every generation is going to consider a different era of tractors to be antique. To today's farm kids a 1086 or a 4440 is an old tractor. There's gonna come a time when today's 200hp tractors will be considered old, too. Even though there are "antique" tractors on farms yet, they are getting fewer, so there is less sentiment towards them from today's 15 year olds and they are the future of this sport. Just because some of us grew up on 88's, WD-45's, M's, G's, or U's, that isn't happening a whole lot any more. Think about it, most of us are drawn to what we grew up on or around. See where this is leading? Some day this non- progressive thinking may hurt the club.

Just remember, there was a time when an antique was 1939, but that rule was changed, and sooner or later it will again. Shoot, a car only has to be 25 yrs old, according to the state, and that is progressive every year.

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attend meeting

12-31-2007 09:13:20




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 Re: Why doesn't NATPA UP the years allowed? in reply to 570Puller, 12-31-2007 09:06:41  
attend the meeting at Columbia, Mo-Div 4 tractors would not like this, Div 2-3...maybe? It will make a lot of "older" tractors quit pulling cause it's cheaper to pull/fix up a newer one (easier to get ponies out of them--bang for the buck)...maybe a Div 6???? newer tractors with a speed higher than Div 3...like 5 mph for Div 6?? summer clubs are usually more lax in rules to get whoever they can there unless its a big pull or fair

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5-Star General

12-31-2007 15:43:59




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 Re: Why doesn't NATPA UP the years allowed? in reply to attend meeting, 12-31-2007 09:13:20  
I think Gary Baker has a good idea. We need more hooks and this might help. I pull Div-IV and it would not bother me. In fact, if they put a speed limit, say 5, 8 or 10 mph, a lot of us would pull in that class also for the extra hook. This has been discussed before in different groups of people, if you are interested attend the meeting and make your proposal. I feel as long as rpm's are held to a reasonable limit it might fly.

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Gary from Muleshoe

12-31-2007 08:07:43




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 Re: Why doesn't NATPA UP the years allowed? in reply to 570puller, 12-31-2007 07:06:23  
It may be that any tractor newer than 57 is not considered an antique thus the name NATIONAL ANTIQUE TRACTOR PULLERS ASSOCIATION. Just my thoughts.



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