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Restoration & Repair Tips Board

First welding repair

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Kestrel

11-12-2006 06:25:38




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Now don't you guys laugh..... Here is my first repair with my new Oxy/Acet outfit. Its an antique barn strap hinge that had two cracks runnng through it. I fused it back together with just a little filler rod added, then took it to my bench grinder to smooth it out before I paint it.
Did this weaken the weld? I was wondering about this late last night.
This hinge has to be 100 years old if a day. Kestrel in CT

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Brad_bb

11-14-2006 07:07:23




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 Re: First welding repair in reply to Kestrel, 11-12-2006 06:25:38  
You see he"s still got some spider web cracks eminating from the bolt holes. A TIG would be perfect to weld those up and and add very little filler material and therefore much less work to disguise the repair afterwards.



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Brad_bb

11-13-2006 08:42:35




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 Re: First welding repair in reply to Kestrel, 11-12-2006 06:25:38  
The real question is what are you trying to get out of the repair -just functionality, or functionality and uniform look? There"s been a lot of rust on this hinge - you could use a dremel and try to recreate a uniform surface by creating dimples with a grinding stone tip and then leave the hing outside to get wet and start rusing on the repair. Or do you want the hinge to look brand new? If you could blast it completely and then spread a high quality body filler and sand 80, 180 and 320 grit before paint. yet another option is to blast it, create the dimples with a dremel, them epoxy prime it, then paint flat black. For weld repair of cracks, I very much prefer TIG welding. Most people don"t have TIG welders. They start at about $1500. A TIG welder is a much advanced form of welding but similiar to your Acetylene welding. TIG provices the strongest weld -not too brittle, not too soft and is awesome for these kind of repairs. TIG is also used extensively on racecars -rollbars, chassis etc. It doesn"t hurt to know of a shop that does TIG when you need it sometimes. I"ve seen many times where someone tries to Mig repair something and it ends up cracking again (because MIG is a very Hard weld). Note: Strong weld is different from hard weld. A strong weld is a combination of strength but not too hard. You don"t want a weld to crack, but bend with the most strength without cracking. I hope I explained that ok. The Oxy-Acetylene (SP?) is not bad though if done well.

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Kestrel

11-13-2006 12:34:57




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 Re: First welding repair in reply to Brad_bb, 11-13-2006 08:42:35  
Actually, I was just practicing a short bead while trying not to burn down the place or myself. But no, I really want to restore functionality to these "historic" hinges(I have several). The old dimpled look is apparently a much desired effect nowadays. I see reproductions for sale online for $150.00 a pair, without the pins.

So, I simply top coat mine with Rustoleum and it seems to adhere nicely while leaving the pot marked look.
Great explanation of TIG side of things and fairing the surface though. Its all useful to me.
Like 135Fan implied, at my level, it wouldn't be cost effective-
yet ...
Thanks again guys
Kestrel

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135 Fan

11-13-2006 10:46:01




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 Re: First welding repair in reply to Brad_bb, 11-13-2006 08:42:35  
You kind of missed the whole point of the post. Yes a Good TIG weld is very strong. So is an O/A weld. You would need to have a lot of work to justify spending $1500 on a TIG welder. If you already had a DC welder, then you could just get a TIG torch and Argon regulator. The hinge was an excellent project to try out his new O/A torch. It looks pretty good for a first attempt at gas welding. Dave

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Greasey Hand

04-09-2007 15:30:59




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 Re: First welding repair in reply to 135 Fan, 11-13-2006 10:46:01  
The tig welder has a high freek.
Cant hook a tig with a regulator to a dc & weld,
Need argon to.



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Kestrel

11-12-2006 16:33:20




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 Re: First welding repair in reply to Kestrel, 11-12-2006 06:25:38  
Thanks guys. I can tell already this welding business can get addictive. I can't wait until a stud breaks off or something fun like that happens. I have a hydraulic leak now on my 1956 Case's front end loader. It weeps out of an old weld at a joint between two hydraulic fluid filled steel tubes. From what my welding books keep warning me about, I would assume ALL fluid would have to be completely drained before I even thought of lighting the torch.
I'm a few weeks away from attempting that yet.
Kestrel in CT

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135 Fan

11-12-2006 18:57:00




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 Re: First welding repair in reply to Kestrel, 11-12-2006 16:33:20  
It is hard to tell how good the weld is after it is ground down. If you V'd out a groove and made sure it was really clean, and that you had a nice molten puddle on the piece you were welding, it should be good. If you melt the rod on to the piece before you have a nice puddle, you will have lack of fusion. Grinding a weld so it is flat or slightly higher does not weaken the repair. Lack of fusion or penetration will weaken it however. Actually having the weld built up too high causes a notch effect at the edges and will cause a weak spot for a crack to develop. On test pieces if you have too much build up, it will fail. About the thickness of a dime above the original thickness is ideal. As far as welding up steel hydraulic lines there are some people that say it is best to replace them. However many have been welded and/or brazed. Apparently the heat can cause cracks next to the weld. If welding doesn't work then you can replace it. To gas weld a steel hydraulic line, it would have to be meticulously clean. If it wasn't you'ld probably make such a mess it would have to be replaced. O/A welding and TIG welding which is similar, have to be the cleanest prior to welding of any welding process. I think I'd get some more practice before I tackled a hydraulic line. You don't want to make it worse. Try to find some scrap tubing the same size to practice on. Grind a little V where you are going to weld. Hope this helps. Dave

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old

11-12-2006 08:57:31




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 Re: First welding repair in reply to Kestrel, 11-12-2006 06:25:38  
Yes it weakens the weld some. Think about it this way, which is stronger a piece if 1/4 inch iron or a piece of 1/8 inch iron. Works the same way on a weld. Now did you weaken it much well that depends on how much metal you took off when you did the grinding and if it was a good weld



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Richard H.

11-12-2006 06:33:01




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 Re: First welding repair in reply to Kestrel, 11-12-2006 06:25:38  
That looks good, bout the worst thing you can do to weaken a weld is to quinch it at any time to cool it.



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