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Restoration & Repair Tips Board

Breaking old bolts loose

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JerryS

06-19-2007 12:19:39




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I'm going to be doing some invasive work on my 8N, starting with removing the trumpet axle housings. Also plan to break down my wheel rims for sanding, painting.

My question: Is it generally better to attack 55-year-old nuts and bolts with air or manual sockets? I have air but I've never used it.

Thanks.




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Pycoed

08-23-2007 14:11:17




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 Re: Breaking old bolts loose in reply to Bob, 06-19-2007 12:19:39  

oldhousehugger25 said: (quoted from post at 22:25:59 07/14/07)
1) Nuts are cheap. If the corners of the nut are stripped but the threads of the stud still look OK ...save the threads:
If you can get at it with a sawsall or an angle grinder and a cut off blade, slice that old nut as close to the threads as possible and then tap it off with a cold chistle. Even if you boogger some of the threads you can always chase the threads with a die after it's apart.

Or if you can't get to it with the angle grinder, use the cold chistle to fracture and expand the nut enough that it will let loose and back off. Be careful not to bust your casting while beating on the nut.



Another good way to split the nut & save the stud thread is to drill through the nut parallel to the stud. This leaves less metal for the cold chisel to cut through to split the nut

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oldhousehugger25

07-14-2007 13:25:59




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 Re: Breaking old bolts loose in reply to JerryS, 06-19-2007 12:19:39  
First.
Always use a good 6 point socket. 12 point sockets have about 1/4 the contact area and will strip the corners in a heartbeat.
Use a long enough cheater and you can feel the threads let loose or not as you apply torque. Impacts are fine if you know what the fastener can take but with a long cheater you can apply more torque, steadily. Gives better control.

Three suggestions. If all else fails

1) Nuts are cheap. If the corners of the nut are stripped but the threads of the stud still look OK ...save the threads:

If you can get at it with a sawsall or an angle grinder and a cut off blade, slice that old nut as close to the threads as possible and then tap it off with a cold chistle. Even if you boogger some of the threads you can always chase the threads with a die after it's apart.

Or if you can't get to it with the angle grinder, use the cold chistle to fracture and expand the nut enough that it will let loose and back off. Be careful not to bust your casting while beating on the nut.

Something else
This works for both nuts and bolts and stripped studs. Weld a good nut to the end of the damaged fastener. The heat from the weld quite often loosens the threads and it will back right out.

A bead of weld is a real quick way to get a tapered bearing cup out of a blind bore too. Jack the weld heat up as high as you dare, run a bead around the bearing surface of the damaged bearing and the weld shrinkage and latent heat will drop the cup out quite nicely. John

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R Matthew Songer

06-25-2007 12:29:39




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 Re: Breaking old bolts loose in reply to JerryS, 06-19-2007 12:19:39  
PB Blaster, the best there is, heat from a propane torch or an oxy-acetylene kit, and my favorite is a 1 1/2 lb brass hammer for tapping on the parts to get some vibration going. I dismantled a '51 MM Avery V that had set out for the last 10 years and only broke one bolt. Go slow and be patient.



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Stumpalump

06-23-2007 14:30:46




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 Re: Breaking old bolts loose in reply to JerryS, 06-19-2007 12:19:39  
Old Fords had real high nickel content in the bolts and they seem to allways come out no matter how bad they look.



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Philmar Farms

06-23-2007 06:18:47




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 Re: Breaking old bolts loose in reply to JerryS, 06-19-2007 12:19:39  
I learned this one from a frend of mine. Working on a wisconsin V-4 to remove the head bolts the first thing he did was rap each one with a hammer and punch to break the rust. I still do this on rusted fastners before putting on any liquid. A large hammer and a thick punch or a pnuematic hammer does the job. Remeber it took years for the rust to grow,take a few extra minites to undue it.



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slowfolk

06-20-2007 05:45:30




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 Re: Breaking old bolts loose in reply to JerryS, 06-19-2007 12:19:39  
Soak the nuts and bolts with Liquid Wrench



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b siegmund

08-23-2007 08:35:39




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 Re: Breaking old bolts loose in reply to slowfolk, 06-20-2007 05:45:30  
Read a study last year tat a guy published in machinist workshop or homeshop machinist.He found that by far the best bolt penetratig solution per dollar was ATF( automatic transmission fluid).



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souNdguy

06-19-2007 12:34:18




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 Re: Breaking old bolts loose in reply to JerryS, 06-19-2007 12:19:39  
i agree with the prev poster.

That said.. the trumpet stud nuts probably won't hassle ya too bad. Bout the worst thing is paint in the threads. for that i usually spray each studnut with oven cleaner.. or paint stripper.. or straight grease cutter like purple stuff.. cause it will attack the paint and make that nut come off without the threads loading up so bad.

Good luck on the rim botls.. I've never seen a rim bolt not stuck.. They are int he elements so much more than any of the rest of the tractor hardware.. add paint and -any- surface rust.. and that interference fit becomes darn tight..

Soundguy

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glennster

06-19-2007 12:25:00




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 Re: Breaking old bolts loose in reply to JerryS, 06-19-2007 12:19:39  
as you have time to spare and are not doing an immediate field repair, i'd soak up all the bolts good with pb blaster for a few days, the use the air impact set on low, set the impact to tighten, put er on the bolt and give er a quick burst, then reverse it. do each bolt that way, dont try and remove them, just scare em a little, spray em again with pb blaster and let em sit another day. then come back and use the impact to take em out.

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Frumpadump

06-20-2007 07:13:20




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 Re: Breaking old bolts loose in reply to glennster, 06-19-2007 12:25:00  
I usually take the torch to th bolt headm just to get it kind of warm and then spray with PB blaster several times. I agree with setting the air wrench on tighten and then loosen.



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JerryS

06-20-2007 09:05:42




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 Re: Breaking old bolts loose in reply to Frumpadump, 06-20-2007 07:13:20  

Thanks, guys, for all the great comments. I just found this board, and what a terrific bunch of contributors!!

Just curious, what's the science behind the 'tighten first, reverse second'?

Thanks again.



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glennster

06-21-2007 06:08:59




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 Re: Breaking old bolts loose in reply to JerryS, 06-20-2007 09:05:42  
if the bolts are froze in there, lots of times a little foreward movement, just a hair will break the threads free so you can get em out. tease-ing them in and out with the impact vibrates the threads and lets the penetrating oil get in there. another thing to try is to strike the bolt head with a ball peen hammer, not hard, just tap it. with something like a brake bleeder, you can tap around the bleeder on the caliper casting to do the same thing. also, you can apply a little head to a bolt or nut, so it expands and then cools. i like to try everything i can to avoid breaking something off, but sometimes, its unavoidable.

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sambear

06-21-2007 13:12:47




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 Re: Breaking old bolts loose in reply to glennster, 06-21-2007 06:08:59  
I have tried the "tighten slightly then reverse" method as well. The science is not too complicated.

When using a rust penetrant you need to have the liquid works its way through the threads. Any movement, though not guaranteed to do so, should create gaps for the penetrant to flow to do its work



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TimV

06-21-2007 13:35:29




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 Re: Breaking old bolts loose in reply to sambear, 06-21-2007 13:12:47  
Another vote for PB Blaster, heat, and gentle loosen/tighten with an impact gun. I like glennster's reference to "scaring them"--that's all you're trying to do. ANY movement is the key, whether it's tightening, loosening, expanding (heat) or even contracting (cold), as you're just trying to get a few ten-thousandths of free space to let the PB Blaster loosen and lubricate the assembly, at which point things will start to happen. Too much twisting at once is a good recipe for a broken bolt, which now presents a whole new set of problems. I've seen bolts taken out by this method that were nearly broken in two, but if you use slow and easy as your watchwords, you can get them out, often without ruining the threads.

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