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Clutch finger adjustment

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Pete M.

04-22-2008 18:56:44




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I've just done my first clutch changeout on a 1960 821 Ford tractor and found out that the manual I've been using for reference is about as useful as the broken clutch I just removed. It doesn't have any good reference shots for adjusting the finger height until the end of the chapter and even worse, no blow-aparts to show where the adjusting screws are. Here's the delema; I've already reassembled the tractor but depressing the clutch will not allow the tractor to go into gear. The pedal is adjusted but isn't straight up like I've seen mentioned in other postings. When depressed the pedal travels about 9 inches then stops but won't release the clutch plate so I'm assuming the fingers need adjusting. There are no images in the book I have to show where the adjusting screws are so I have no reference on how to accomplish this. Can the fingers be adjusted while the tractor is assembled? Does anyone have a decent image to show where the adjusting screws are? Am I screwed and have to split the tractor once again? :p
This is a 10 inch single clutch on an industrial backhoe.

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MarkB_MI

04-23-2008 18:47:41




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 Re: Clutch finger adjustment in reply to Pete M., 04-22-2008 18:56:44  
I don't know that the single-stage clutch has adjusting srews. Those are on the two-stage clutches used with live PTO. Likewise, if you don't have a two-stage clutch, the clutch pedal should be roughly the same height as the brake pedals. (The two-stage clutch needs the extra travel to disengage the PTO.) You should be able to adjust your clutch using just the stop bolt (for free play) and the clevis (for pedal height).

Note that a new clutch will have much more free play than an old one. You may just need take up the free play with the stop bolt.

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Welding man

04-23-2008 18:14:33




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 Re: Clutch finger adjustment in reply to Pete M., 04-22-2008 18:56:44  
Most older model ford clutches were meant to be set up on a clutch fixture before installing them on the tractor. This a special fixture made by Nuday for ford. Most manuals do not give the exact height to set the fingers, they just tell you what number spacer to use on each particular pressure plate. I have two of these fixtures, but I don't know if I have the specs for your tractor. I will look tomarrow and try to repost, and yes if you have to adjust these you will have to roll her apart again. Having installed dozens of tractor clutches I learned a long time ago to roll the tractor together ,install 2 bell housing bolts and check the petal before going any farther, I have rolled them apart 5 or 6 times on some tractors before I got them right,especially the two stage ones. Tractor clutches aren't as simple as car clutches.

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CNKS

04-23-2008 17:19:58




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 Re: Clutch finger adjustment in reply to Pete M., 04-22-2008 18:56:44  
All of the comments below aside (installing backwards IS a common mistake), I think most rebuilt clutches come from the factory with the fingers at the correct height, so you can probably ignore that part of the manual. I have the same problem as you with a rebuilt clutch in my International 460 HU, I am "positive" it is installed correctly, but I am probably going to have to split the tractor to find out what I did wrong. It is likely some silly mistake.

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Bob

04-22-2008 22:05:50




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 Re: Clutch finger adjustment in reply to Pete M., 04-22-2008 18:56:44  
You didn't put the lined plate in backwards, did you?



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Pete M.

04-23-2008 01:21:25




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 Re: Clutch finger adjustment in reply to Bob, 04-22-2008 22:05:50  
This isn't my first clutch changeout, just my first on a tractor. Helpful replies only please.



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Bob

04-23-2008 05:49:31




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 Re: Clutch finger adjustment in reply to Pete M., 04-23-2008 01:21:25  
It WAS intended as a helpful reply. Installing the lined plate backwards is probably the most common mistake people make with clutches.

If you are smart enough to make that spitefull comeback, you will certainly be able to figure out the finger height thing!!!



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Pete M.

04-23-2008 07:06:04




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 Re: Clutch finger adjustment in reply to Bob, 04-23-2008 05:49:31  
First of all, I wasn't "spiteful". A "lined plate" refers to nothing on the 10 inch single disc clutch system and sounds more like you're being sarcastic. If you meant the clutch disc itself then my statement still applies. I know which side of a clutch disc goes to the flywheel and which doesn't. I'm simply trying to find out whether the pivot mounting bolts on the pressure plate are the adjusting bolts for the clutch fingers and if they can be adjusted without splitting the tractor. All other clutch systems on cars and trucks I've changed out had preset pressure plates from the factory. According to the book (and mentioned in a place where it shouldn't have been), this clutch has to have the finger height adjusted.

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Bob

04-24-2008 18:48:38




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 Re: Clutch finger adjustment in reply to Pete M., 04-23-2008 07:06:04  
IMHO, "lined plate" is a legitimate term in mechanical nomenclature to describe the clutch part with lining on it, to differentiate it from any unlined discs or plates, and should be self-explanatory.



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CNKS

04-23-2008 17:27:27




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 Re: Clutch finger adjustment in reply to Pete M., 04-23-2008 07:06:04  
In addition to my post above, yes the "pivot bolts" you mention can be used to adjust the fingers. Provided you mean the screws with the lock nuts. They can be adjusted without splitting the tractor if you can get to them. I tried that on my tractor, and it did absolutely no good. On my 460 it is simple, don't know about yours. I So I think you have another problem, what it is I do not know.



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JMS/.MN

04-23-2008 16:07:49




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 Re: Clutch finger adjustment in reply to Pete M., 04-23-2008 07:06:04  
Don"t know about your Ford- I was able to adjust my Ford backhoe via the pedal linkage, but on a WD AC, there are three fingers, and each one has a 5/16 bolt with a locknut- and that sets the fingers. Accessed through a cover underneath the tractor.



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Pete M.

04-23-2008 20:05:54




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 Re: Clutch finger adjustment in reply to JMS/.MN, 04-23-2008 16:07:49  
I tried to adjust it out through the pedal linkage but that didn't work. There simply isn't enough travel for the fingers on the pressure plate to lift it. I played around with the old pressure plate bolts that I mentioned earlier and the fingers did move outwards as I losened them so I'm pretty certain that the ones on the new pressure plate will do the same. The book calls for "striking" the adjusters once the height is set and that will be a problem since I can't get to them with the tractor in one piece. I'm going to try adjusting them tomorrow then JB welding one flat of each bolt to keep it from turning once the adjustment is made. I hope that works.

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Pete M.

04-24-2008 16:50:55




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 Re: Clutch finger adjustment SOLVED! in reply to Pete M., 04-23-2008 20:05:54  
Problem solved!
When I installed the clutch I was certain I had everything right and I did. This tractor's clutch assembly was working fine however, I was depressing the pedal to the end of its travel when I was trying to put it into gear. The old clutch needed to be worked this way because the pressure plate was probably the original. The last owner replaced the clutch disc and not the pressure plate and that's what caused the clutch failure I experienced. This new clutch releases nicely when depressed about half way but if you push the pedal to the end of its travel the disc goes right back into motion. It's an odd anomoly but I'm assuming that the lift arms that lift the pressure plate are somehow pressing backwards against the pressure plate when pressed all the way down. It's something I'll have to remember while using the machine. Thanks to the replies for your help. :)

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Edpap

04-24-2008 20:46:20




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 Re: Clutch finger adjustment SOLVED! in reply to Pete M., 04-24-2008 16:50:55  
Hello Pete,
I would not run that tractor like that, you will wreck your new clutch. I would adjust your lincage so that when the pedal is at it lower stop the clutch is disengaged. I don't know what the spec for free play is on that tractor but there must be some. I think your right the only way the clutch will engage is if the fingers are contacting the clutch disc if that is happening you might break a finger or rip the springs out of the disc. I can assure that the tractor was made to work that way. and it should be fixed.
Good Luck Ed

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Pete M.

04-25-2008 02:53:02




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 Re: Clutch finger adjustment SOLVED! in reply to Edpap, 04-24-2008 20:46:20  
I agree. As I've posted as a reply to another poster, the previous owners removed things from the machine and I've been spending the last year finding that out the hard way. The foot rests used on the farm tractor version are missing and I'm assuming the stop was on them. I'll be fixing that problem this weekend. What I'd give for a couple of good images of what this machine should have on it.



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Pete M.

04-25-2008 06:49:09




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 Re: Clutch finger adjustment SOLVED! in reply to Pete M., 04-25-2008 02:53:02  
It also turns out as I should have expected, the manual I've been using is once again dead wrong. When I bought this machine the linkage for the clutch had the pin in the rear hole. The manual I have also shows the pin in the rear hole and claims that's the setup for the late 4 and 5 spd tractors. I reset the pin to the front hole and the clutch works fine with no overpush on the fingers. This manual is going to get filed in the circular filing cabinet.

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Bob

04-24-2008 18:44:59




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 It's something I'll have to remember while using the machine in reply to Pete M., 04-24-2008 16:50:55  
"It's something I'll have to remember while using the machine."

It's NOT just "something to remember"... It's downright DANGEROUS! In a panic situation, you will depress the clutch all the way, and the clutch won't release!

That was a favorite "trick" of the "Johnny Poppers"... if the clutch brake was not set up right. When the operator pulled the clutch lever back hard to apply the pulley brake, the clutch would be re-engaged. NOT GOOD, when you need to stop in a panic situation!

SERIOUSLY, you need to find out what is wrong NOW, and avoid a disaster later!

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Pete M.

04-25-2008 02:47:59




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 Re: It's something I'll have to remember while using the mac in reply to Bob, 04-24-2008 18:44:59  
I agree. What is wrong is that the previous owners have removed yet another part of the machine I wasn't aware of. This has been a plague since I bought this thing. The foot rests that are supposed to be on this machine are gone but on the lower rails of the subframe are another set. I had assumed they were gone because of the set on the subframe but after some consideration of the present circumstance I've come to the conclusion that the former owner removed them for "convenience" when he changed the clutch the last time. The stop for the clutch pedal would have been on those foot rests. I would love to have a series of good images of what this machine should be equipped with so I could go get the missing parts.
Anyway, I'll be making my own foot rests and stop for the clutch this weekend. The last thing I need is a trip over the side of an embankment on a five thousand pound machine. At least I know the clutch works.

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