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Sheet metal filling??

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G. L. Perry

12-14-2003 14:28:01




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Have Case, all painted cept hood and fenders. The hood has pitted metal all over. I've primed and sure paint won't cover the pits. What fillers are easy to use and needed for skim coating this type part? I've used spot putty before, but fellas say there is a new two part putty that works better. What's that? Does it really stay in, even with shallow app and sanding most off? I've been avoiding this part, but now needs to be done, so gotta get supplies and try something. Filler primer isn't gonna fill these itself, but maybe I need that too? Haven't done much metal prep stuff, so kinda new at it. New products now, I guess?

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Butch

12-16-2003 05:22:20




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 Re: Sheet metal filling?? in reply to G. L. Perry, 12-14-2003 14:28:01  
I lay no claim on being a paint 'spert but I know what has worked for me, and what has failed. Laying putty on rusty pits don't work for long. Sandblasting the metal hard enough and long enough to get the rust out of the bottom of the pits leaves the metal in sad shape, stretches it and warps it, just makes a mess of otherwise nice sheetmetal. I give my pitted metal a sweeping type blasting with sand not worrying about certain spots with tough or deep paint that stays on or the bottoms of deep pits. You can get close to the same results with a body grinder and a #36 disk and flexable backing. Then before any filler or straightening work the sheetmetal gets a coat of the allready mentioned 2 part expoxy primer. Not to be confused with Rustolium, sanding primer or sealers. I use PPG products and just ask for the two part primer in the Omni line. Get a gallon of reducer and add somewhere around 10% that makes the primer into a sealer too and saves a step. Be darn sure not to use this type primer or any other two componant paint unless you have the RIGHT breathing equipment. After the primer is dry and cured you can apply putty right over the primer to fill the pits. Mixing a bit of fiberglass resin in the putty will thin it and make for less work sanding or thinner bodied putty is availible just for this type work. When the pits are filled and evrything is level to suit you give it another coat of e-primer and paint the same day for best adhesion. I have used this process now for 6 years and the first one one done looks as good as the day I finished it.

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Rich

12-18-2003 10:34:22




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 Re: Re: Sheet metal filling?? in reply to Butch, 12-16-2003 05:22:20  
As a general rule you do want to get to bare metal. I use a product called half time to skim anything that in my judgement is deeper than 36 grit scratches ( use this as a guide for pits too). You could fill deeper with 2k high build primers but it isnt cost effective!!! After you achieve this then use your 2k primer sufacer and block it out from that point!! Hope this helps.



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CNKS

12-16-2003 14:04:32




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 Re: Re: Sheet metal filling?? in reply to Butch, 12-16-2003 05:22:20  
No argument, except that MP 170 is already a sealer, don't know how adding reducer will change that, it will make it flow out better, ie gives a smoother surface. Also the 175 catalyst does not contain iso's, meaning that if you don't want to purchase a supplied air system you can still use the epoxy primer and use unhardened surfacer and topcoat. I would use a surfacer (I believe the 1k primer surfacer is MP 181) over the 2nd application of 170, and sand it smooth, that will fill in the imperfections in the putty. The 1K can shrink, that is the advantage of a 2K surfacer, but the 2K surfacer does contain isos. --- but, whatever works for you.

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butch

12-16-2003 14:32:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Sheet metal filling?? in reply to CNKS, 12-16-2003 14:04:32  
The reducer suggestion came from my PPG dealer. They told me that the small amount of reducer would eliminate the need for a seperate sealer, dont have a clue why. This was back when I used DP-40. I have now switched to the Omni line e-prime (is that MP 170 still have not gotten used to the Omni numbers), and was told the same thing, add a bit of reducer to eliminate the need for sealer. I have been using the MP181 also, forgot to add that step. I have seen no problems with the 181 but my paint dealer pushes the two part surfacers real hard. They are a lot more expensive than 181 and left overs are waste instead of going back in tha can.

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CNKS

12-16-2003 18:08:58




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Sheet metal filling?? in reply to butch, 12-16-2003 14:32:19  
I have heard repeatedly from people on this board and elsewhere that MP 170 (epoxy primer) acts as a sealer -- It's somewhat immaterial to me since I am usually working with bare metal, and since I use only PPG products, I don't need a sealer. I don't pay much attention to what the dealer says, most don't know one end of a paint gun from the other. I get my info from experienced painters and painting forums, I read a lot, plus I am using my own experience as I get it. Yes, what is not used of the 2K MP182 surfacer has to be tossed, and it only has a 1 hour pot life, but it's only used on the sheet metal, and I don't need much of it--this is where I like the reducer, reduce it by 5% and it flows out good. I have done the sheet metal on 2 tractors (mine don't have fenders), and still have at least a pint left in a gallon can. If there are a lot of deep scratches the single stage surfacers can shrink into the scratches after you are done painting, not saying it happens every time but it is possible, 2K eliminates most of the shrinkage.

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Butch

12-16-2003 18:44:33




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sheet metal filling?? in reply to CNKS, 12-16-2003 18:08:58  
I guess I'm lucky, my PPG dealer is the back door to his body shop. I do agree with the average parts store paint jockey though, have been lead down the wrong path before. Might have to give that 2 part surfacer a try, he sure givers me the dickens for using 181. Thanks



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Wardner

12-14-2003 20:02:36




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 Re: Sheet metal filling?? in reply to G. L. Perry, 12-14-2003 14:28:01  
I use an epoxy high build primer like Dupont Corlor. It is a catylized paint. If the sheet metal is thick and the pits are deep, I spray it on without thinner. This method works very well on IH clamshell fenders. The paint may build to 40-60 mils. I sand down the excess paint until the surface is flat and pit-free. This method is much better than putty or filler.



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Mike L.

12-14-2003 15:40:03




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 Re: Sheet metal filling?? in reply to G. L. Perry, 12-14-2003 14:28:01  
Others will be able to speak of the newest greatest products. I will only say be SURE you have ALL the rust removed and pits cleaned up or you WILL have paint failure down the road. A BIG part of painting is the PREPARTION. Just my opinion.



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