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Confounded by a W6

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Brasscreek

01-03-2006 12:04:08

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I recently had to replace a mag on my W6 (the old one was traded away a year ago, dumb mistake on my part). Before the old mag was taken off the tractor ran beautifully and started easily. I rebuilt another old H4 mag I had and bench tested it with good spark junping the points. (I put in new condenser, a used coil and core, new points, rotoe and cap) I even hooked up the wires and plugs on the bench and tested each one with good luck. I put the mag on the tractor and timed it as best I could but cannot find the timing marks on the crank pulley since it has been rubbing on the cast iron water intake pipe. I think the timing marks must be worn off. I did clean around the pulley and still didn't see any marks. Anyhow, I timed it to TDC of the #1 piston (closest to radiator) with the rotor pointing towards the #1 hole on the distributor cap. Cranked it over and the engine gets plenty of gas, the mag impulse clicks over but nothing! I've since read many excerpts from this forum and tried what seems like a thousand variations on timing it, including retiming the drive/distributor gears inside the mag. If it helps, this mag came off of an Allis Chalmers B and had been converted to a distributor (coil and core gutted with an external coil added). Like I said, the mag is now back in stock condition with everything in it and properly adjusted (.13 point gap). I am at wits end since everything on the tractor seems to be in the proper order. I've also tested the kill switch to make sure it isn't grounding out the mag but this makes no difference. Yesterday when cranking it I did get a couple putts but thats been it. I'm sure the cause of this is something I'll whack my head about when I figure it out and say 'why didn't I think of that!' but any help is surely appreciated!!

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Brasscreek

01-03-2006 13:03:27

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Re:Update on Confounded by a W6 in reply to Brasscreek, 01-03-2006 12:04:08

So, here we go again! I just learned that the mag I have is indeed an H4 IH mag BUT is a variant of the standard H4. Its serial number ends in "X" and an "XR" is stamped on the impulse coupling. This means, according to the IHC Blue Ribbon service book (pg. 55 and available at the link below) that this mag has a spark range/rotation of 10 degrees instead of the standard 35 degrees that all normal H4s have. I don't know what this mag came from but it sure wasn't a normal IH tractor. The book lists it as coming from a H.60. application. Anyone know what that is? Anyhow, what I'm interested in is knowing what the physical differences are between then mags and if an easy conversion can change my mag from 10 degrees to 35? All help greatly appreciated!!

mag manual link-
http://www.cleancomputes.com/Cub/Blue%20Ribbon%20Service%20Manuals/GSS-5035%20Service%20Manual%20Magnetos/index.html

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Bob

01-03-2006 21:43:07

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Re:Update on Confounded by a W6 in reply to Brasscreek, 01-03-2006 13:03:27

Brassy,

I don't think you understand the impulse angle thing.

You time the mag to the engine, so that, at cranking speed, the impulse snaps and the mag sparks more or less at TDC.

When the engine "catches", and speeds up to the specified RPM's, the impulse "drops out", and this action causes the timing to jump forward the specified number of degrees, to "running timing", all at once.

Therefore, if you have the mag positioned so the impluse is snapping at the correct time, and the engine refuses to start, you have problems other than the wrong "lag angle" on the impulse.

Even with the lesser lag angle, the engine should fire off just as well, however, at speed, the running timing would be later than desired, possibly causing it to lack power and run warm, however, it SHOULD start!

I'm trying to jog my memory as to why a mag would have a lower "lag angle". It was probably for a kerosene burner.

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Brasscreek

01-04-2006 12:01:03

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Re:Update on Confounded by a W6 in reply to Bob, 01-03-2006 21:43:07

Thanks Bob for the update. I redid everything and timed according to service manual. The mag trips just BEFORE the true TDC. Currently I have the carb off to fix a leak in the draincock and will give the whole shebang a try again as soon as its back together. Yeah, I can't figure out what the 10 degree setting is on the mag either, as I have no idea what the "60 H.T." is. L.P. or propane power unit?

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Jon Hagen

01-03-2006 18:18:56

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Re:Update on Confounded by a W6 in reply to Brasscreek, 01-03-2006 13:03:27

Did you check for compression(thumb in plug hole) as you rolled #1 up to TDC ? If not, you might have the crank 360 degrees out,at TDC on the exhaust stroke.

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Brasscreek

01-03-2006 18:35:19

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Re:Update on Confounded by a W6 in reply to Jon Hagen, 01-03-2006 18:18:56

I did perform the old 'thumb in the hole' trick and also verified TDC by removing the valve cover and making sure both intake and exhaust valves were closed. Some new development though... When I put the magneto on the tractor, timed according to specs, I can get spark by pulling the coil wire from the dist cap and placing it next to the mag body, nice big blue spark. BUT...nothing comes from the spark plug wire holes. I realize that this seems like an easy cap/rotor replacement but the cap is new and the rotor, while not spanking new, is in pristine condition. I am currently in the process of checking the rotor via an old dist cap I have that has one side cut out so you can see what is going on inside.

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Jon Hagen

01-03-2006 20:11:24

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Re:Update on Confounded by a W6 in reply to Brasscreek, 01-03-2006 18:35:19

Good spark from coil,but none from plug wires,rotor and cap new ??? Might the rotor drive gears be out of time so the rotor is in the wrong position (not aligned with a cap terminal) when it fires ??

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