6V solinoid on 12V

Some older models have a special 6-Volt solenoid, with the terminal that activates them electrically "hot".

If that is what you have, for the safety neutral start button to function, you must replace the solenoid with the same type.

John T

For example, assume the solenoids DC resistance were 4 ohms. At 12 volts the current I = 12/4 = 3 amps. HOWEVER at 6 volts the current I = 6/4= 1.5 only half the current. Double the Voltage doubles the current PERIOD

NOWWWWW WWW I think what you are referring to are Motors which use current to generate an electromagnetic field and more current = more magnetic flux. The current a motor uses sees two load components, one the current used to produce the magnetic field (Inductive component) PLUS the straight DC resistance component AS IT HAS A GREAT LENGHT OF WIRE WHICH HAS SOME, ALTHOUGH LOW RESISTANCE PER FOOT. Its true that if a multi voltage winding motor were wired at 120 volts, in that case it indeed draws TWICE the current as if it were wired at 240 volts. Thats cuz the overall POWER consumed by the motor is approximately the same THEREFORE since Power = E x I if the Voltage is doubled the current indeed is halved per what you were thinking.

Nowwwww www although theres some similarity in a Solenoid compared to a motor as it produces a magnetic field which pulls a plunger, the ratio of its pure DC resistive load compared to its inductive load IS FAR DIFFERENT THEN A MOTOR, ITS MOSTLY RESISTANCE which makes my statement applicable. HOWEVER, the primary motor load is more INDUCTIVE AND LESS RESISTIVE. The motor has low DC resistance in its many many windings of low impedance copper wire VERSUS all the Inductance it has caused by multiple turns/loops of wire.

Sooooo ooo we have to make an apples to apples comparison i.e. an Inductance versus Resistance calculation to see EXACTLY the difference in current of a solenoid if the voltage were doubled BUTTTTT TTT since its ratio of Inductance versus Resistance is farrrrr rrrr different from a motor and it doesnt require anywhere nearrrrr r the inductance required by a motor (i.e. its resistance component consumes the majority of its power, it produces more heat then magnetic flux energy)

IM GONNA STAND BY MY THEORY (for now at least) lol

Thats my story n Im a stickin to it until proven otherwise. The bottom line is motors consume most of their energy in their inductance while Im sayign the Solenoid consumes much more energy in its resistive/heat component.

I thoroughlly enjoy these electrical discussions, Im NOT here to fight, but to learn things myself plus hopefully pass a few tricks onto others.

Great fun discussion, I cant wait to hear counter arguments or if anyone agrees????/

Take care yall, God Bless

John T Nordhoff in Indiana (Long retired EE)

Proof? Take a 6 volt lamp, connect it across a 12 volt battery and observe what happens!

DJM, Since I = E/R..... ...Given the SAME RESISTANCE..... . The current doubles if the Voltage is doubled like I said !!!!! !!!!! !!!!

For example, assume the solenoids DC resistance were 4 ohms. At 12 volts the current I = 12/4 = 3 amps. HOWEVER at 6 volts the current I = 6/4= 1.5 only half the current. Double the Voltage doubles the current PERIOD

NOWWWWW WWW I think what you are referring to are Motors which use current to generate an electromagnetic field and more current = more magnetic flux. The current a motor uses sees two load components, one the current used to produce the magnetic field (Inductive component) PLUS the straight DC resistance component AS IT HAS A GREAT LENGHT OF WIRE WHICH HAS SOME, ALTHOUGH LOW RESISTANCE PER FOOT. Its true that if a multi voltage winding motor were wired at 120 volts, in that case it indeed draws TWICE the current as if it were wired at 240 volts. Thats cuz the overall POWER consumed by the motor is approximately the same THEREFORE since Power = E x I if the Voltage is doubled the current indeed is halved per what you were thinking.

Nowwwww www although theres some similarity in a Solenoid compared to a motor as it produces a magnetic field which pulls a plunger, the ratio of its pure DC resistive load compared to its inductive load IS FAR DIFFERENT THEN A MOTOR, ITS MOSTLY RESISTANCE which makes my statement applicable. HOWEVER, the primary motor load is more INDUCTIVE AND LESS RESISTIVE. The motor has low DC resistance in its many many windings of low impedance copper wire VERSUS all the Inductance it has caused by multiple turns/loops of wire.

Sooooo ooo we have to make an apples to apples comparison i.e. an Inductance versus Resistance calculation to see EXACTLY the difference in current of a solenoid if the voltage were doubled BUTTTTT TTT since its ratio of Inductance versus Resistance is farrrrr rrrr different from a motor and it doesnt require anywhere nearrrrr r the inductance required by a motor (i.e. its resistance component consumes the majority of its power, it produces more heat then magnetic flux energy)

IM GONNA STAND BY MY THEORY (for now at least) lol

Thats my story n Im a stickin to it until proven otherwise. The bottom line is motors consume most of their energy in their inductance while Im sayign the Solenoid consumes much more energy in its resistive/heat component.

I thoroughlly enjoy these electrical discussions, Im NOT here to fight, but to learn things myself plus hopefully pass a few tricks onto others.

Great fun discussion, I cant wait to hear counter arguments or if anyone agrees????/

Take care yall, God Bless

John T Nordhoff in Indiana (Long retired EE)

One minor point: Once a solenoid completes it's stroke (ie. is holding in the energized state) ALL of the energy consumed by the solenoid appears as heating in the winding.

...Bob M (not yet retired ME with a minor in EE)

Once the solenoid is latched in, theres still an inductor and a magnetic field surrounds the windings, but not the inductive load as it takes initially to achieve the magnetic field and get current pumping, just like it takes 6 times the current to start a motor then it takes to keep it running. As we know thats cuz an inductor hates to change current which is why its impedance is initially greatest (the di/dt is present) to get her all running. I agree n well understand what you say about the load being heat producing resistance once shes latched in. The inductive reactance takes place when current initially enters the coil windings. I still see 12 volts pumping twice the current through a solenoid once the initial inductive reactance stabilizes, cuz with no di/dt (zero frequency) the loads alllll ll resistive after that.

John T (just an old Nerd n Geek n Conservative fuddy duddy)

Geez - di/dt - it's been 35 years since I've had to wrap my brain around THAT kind of stuff! But it's also a relief to know at least some of it is filed way back in a dark corner somewhere. See....you're still way ahead of me on the theoretical aspects of all this sparky stuff! ...Bob M

John T

It's real common to see the 6v solenoid on the 12v equipment.. The 12v converted units should start faster.. thus subjecting the solenoid to less overall 'average' current.. once you figure in 'T'.

Soundguy