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Stationary Engines Discussion Forum

Briggs V-twin vs Onan NH series. Long post!

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Gene Davis (GA)

04-13-2007 20:59:49

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I have a belt drive 8Kw Dayton 1 single phase 120/240 generator that I am powering with an NH seris Onan burning gasoline. I was given a free,(read that as no cost),very low hour Briggs 18 HP Vanguard V-twin engine on a large golf course mower that had a bad hydrostatic pump. Long story, happy ending. The Onan is belted up to the 8Kw Dayton generator with a 2:1 overdrive ratio, runs at 1800 RPM, thus turning the generator at the required 3600 rpm. The generator is of the heavy cast iron variety, has a good flywheel effect with this setup,and works well. It has become almost impossible to get Onan parts in our neck of the woods. Also the Briggs is a good bit lighter than the Onan, not to mention the fuel economy prospects. My question is this: I would like to know if the Briggs V-twin 18 hp can run the generator at the same ratio and have enough power at 1800 rpms fueled by propane using an Impco carburetion setup? Both engines are in good shape and about equal except I was told the NH series Onan was rated at 20 H.P. The rule of thumb is approximately 1.5-2H.P. per Kw of generator output if I remember correctly is it not? If that is the case, theoretically the Briggs Vanguard 18HP should have enough power for the job if not derated too much for the propane set up. Anybody know for sure how much to derate it? Is 10% correct? Does any one know if the power/torque band of the V-twin lies in the 1800 rpm range or would I have torun it at a different speed? The 1800 rpm engine speed is very smooth and a lot quieter than the 3600 rpm engine speed the generator has to turn if direct coupled and it is much less vibration and noise not to mention the difference in fuel consumption dropped almost 50% at 1800rpms. I would appreciate your opinions and knowledge sharing on this plan.

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Tramway Guy

05-10-2007 11:06:08

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Re: Briggs V-twin vs Onan NH series. Long post! in reply to Gene Davis (GA), 04-13-2007 20:59:49

Why not compomise and shoot for an enginer RPM of about 2400-2800 with a 3600 RPM alternator. All you have to do is change the pulleys and maybe the belt(s).

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Kent of SWMO

04-14-2007 08:07:58

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Re: Briggs V-twin vs Onan NH series. Long post! in reply to Gene Davis (GA), 04-13-2007 20:59:49

The B&S engine is 18 HP at 3600 RPM. It will be about 9 HP at 1800 RPM. You 8 KW generator IF fully loaded will need about 16 HP to pull it. You will need to change the pulley ratio to direct, 1 to 1, to use the B&S engine. I like the LP fuel change also. After a resent ICE storm here I am converting several genset to LP fuel.

Kent

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Gene Davis (GA)

04-14-2007 15:23:08

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Re: Briggs V-twin vs Onan NH series. Long post! in reply to Kent of SWMO, 04-14-2007 08:07:58

Thanks for the info Kent. My only concern is how well will the Vanguard hold up at 3,600 rpm over a long stretch of use? Would there be enough reserve with this engine to take care of start up surges? Or is that what you are referring to as full load? Which brand of LP carb and regulator do you reccomend? Did I read one post from you once that said you made your own LP conversion?
I am interested in the low pressure set up for LP/nat. gas because I have a nat.gas hookup very close to where I set up the generator when using it for the house. I would only have to have about 10 ft of hose to connect and could substitute it for propane for extended runs. How well do you think this would run on nat. gas for fuel?

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Kent of SWMO

04-15-2007 15:24:40

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Re: Briggs V-twin vs Onan NH series. Long post! in reply to Gene Davis (GA), 04-14-2007 15:23:08

Yes, I did make my own LP convertions. After a recent ICE Storm and power outage filling a small fuel tank go OOOOOLLLLL LDDDDD DDD. The one I build for Dad's 5000 watt HM100 Tecumseh powered generator is a venturi type where the venturi mounts between the air cleaner and the carb. The reason I built my own is the price quote I got from one of the lp convertion places was $100.00 for the venturi. I make my own mixture control valves by modifying a 1/8 inch pipe "T" and other 1/8" pipe components. You must know that I have a mill and a lathe and know how to use them. In the change from LP to NG you will also need to adjust the fuel mixture. Do a search for alternate fuel and fuel concertions for generators. I would post so links BUT I do not think this site likes that. You must also have a demand regulator and IF the generator is located in a building a Fuel LOCK for a positive shut-off of the fuel, even in a low preasure ( i.e. 11 inch water column = 6 to 8 ounces per square inch) per NFPA ( National Fire Protection Assoc.) rules.

Kent

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Gene Davis (GA)

04-14-2007 15:21:51

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Re: Briggs V-twin vs Onan NH series. Long post! in reply to Kent of SWMO, 04-14-2007 08:07:58

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Jon Hagen

04-15-2007 08:49:17

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Re: Briggs V-twin vs Onan NH series. Long post! in reply to Gene Davis (GA), 04-14-2007 15:21:51

Running a Vanguard at less than the full 3600 rpm was the topic of conversation between me and a buddy who is a Briggs dealer and repairman. My idea was the same as yours, to run a generator with a 2/1 pulley ratio at 1800 rpm to keep the fuel consumption/wear/ noise at a minimum. Many of the Onan powered RV gensets run at 1800 rpm which seems so un stressed to me.
The Briggs dealer/ repairman really frowned on the idea of lugging that briggs to 1800 rpm at anything over 1/2 load. He said that it would be under powered and have sluggish recovery from a surge, but his main concern was that at 1/2 of the rated 3600 rpm, the cooling fan would not move enough air to keep the engine temperature within reason. He said" look at the size of the cooling fan on that 1800 rpm Onan VS the 3600 rpm Briggs with about the same HP."

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