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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

single to 3 phase

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rhudson

11-12-2003 18:57:43




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have any of you fellows tried a frequency drive to turn single phase to three phase? the price has come down alot and seems they would be the way to go instead of the old style capactive converters. any experience? Thanks




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Rod MI

11-19-2003 10:28:05




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 Re: single to 3 phase in reply to rhudson, 11-12-2003 18:57:43  
Check link for VFD info



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Bus Driver

11-13-2003 04:30:25




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 Re: single to 3 phase in reply to rhudson, 11-12-2003 18:57:43  
The inverter, or VFD, works well. The rotary converters waste lots of power while running, even if the 3 phase load is not being used. The VFD uses no power unless power is being used. Smaller, quiet- lots of advantages. May take several hours to read the book and to program the device for your use. After that, you will really like it.



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Jimmy

11-12-2003 20:33:23




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 Re: single to 3 phase in reply to rhudson, 11-12-2003 18:57:43  
I work with 3 phase drives (frequency converters) here at work - Kodak. Typically for larger 40-60 Kw electric motors.
The control of motors from these units are typically excellent - however just one word of advice, make sure you check the amount of single phase power required to efficiently drive the 3 phase motor you have. What I am getting at is , you don't get something for nothing, the single phase supply requirements may be quite large.

Also they don't like power spikes either, I just replaced one on Tuesday - shorted as result of a bad short duration power failure, in that sense they are fragile - like most electronics/computers.

I suppose it depends a lot on your application.

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Jim WI

11-13-2003 10:44:01




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 Re: Re: single to 3 phase in reply to Jimmy, 11-12-2003 20:33:23  
It also makes a difference who you buy from. Some brands will withstand shorted outputs and other problems while others may not.

It's another case of getting what you pay for.



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Wayne

11-12-2003 19:25:34




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 Re: single to 3 phase in reply to rhudson, 11-12-2003 18:57:43  
By frequency drive do you mean a rotary type converter? If so they are alot better than the straight capacitor type, even though they do require capacitors also to aid in starting. The straight cap. type are good for starting things like drill presses, lathes, etc, but just won't cut it for tools with a high starting load like air compressors. We've been running a 20 HP combined load rated Roto-Phase converter for close to 5 years now pulling a contiunous run 7 1/2 HP compressor, as well as intermitintly a 5Hp lathe motor and several other smaller motors. Not having 3 phase available where we are without a $8000 plus initial expense, this converter is one of the best investments we've made.

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rhud, no, electronic

11-12-2003 20:02:38




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 Re: Re: single to 3 phase in reply to Wayne, 11-12-2003 19:25:34  
no this is an electronic variable frequency drive. you can vary the frequency of the power out of the unit. below 60 cycles to slow down ac motors, above 60 cycles to speed up (from name plate rpm) at one time all of them were three phase in. now they are also made with single phase in, in both 120 and 220 volts. with various voltages out depending on the model you choose.



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Wayne

11-13-2003 21:14:00




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 Re: Re: Re: single to 3 phase in reply to rhud, no, electronic, 11-12-2003 20:02:38  
I learn something new everyday. I messed around with the VFD's a little bit back about 10 years ago when I was doing industrial maintenance. We used them on our bridge cranes to achieve variable speed on the hoist motors. Like you said though they were always 3ph in and 3ph out, never saw one using 1ph in with 3ph out. Considering what I saw happen with the ones I dealt with,(they were hung over vats of pickling solution, chromate solution, and molten zinc in a hot dip galvanizing plant)consideting their seeming inability to handle any amount of moisture, or line spikes, and judging by what the other posts say about similar problems in their experience what good are they? Maybe I'm missing something here, but the initial post was judging the VFD's alongside the old capacator type converters, without any mention of needing variable speed, etc. Unless your in the situation we're in and don't have 3 phase service available but for some reason you have no choice but to power a 3ph motor off single phase, and then have to have the ability to control the motor speed, etc why go through all that added expense for a VFD if you can run a rotaty converter that is, at least in my experience, alot more durable, and I imagine alot less expensive to buy? I appreciate the lesson on the new technology, but I'm still curious.....

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Bob M

11-13-2003 04:52:35




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 Re: Re: Re: single to 3 phase in reply to rhud, no, electronic, 11-12-2003 20:02:38  
We did exactly that to run several 3 phase machine tools in my brother's shop. Used small (1 - 2 HP) single phase input/three phase output Reliance VF Drives. The drives were sized to match individual tool motor HP.

The drives have worked great for 7 or 8 years now. They are quiet, and the tool motors run cool. The drives let you vary motor speed from a crawl to 125% of nameplate speed (75 hz) simply by turning a knob. Another nice feature is the "soft start" - when you hit the start button the motor speed ramps up gradually (acceleration time is adjustable...) rather than banging on at full speed.

Only problem we've had was after the shop was struck by lightning. One of the drives was rendered DOA and had to be replaced.

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Tracy B

11-13-2003 09:31:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: single to 3 phase in reply to Bob M, 11-13-2003 04:52:35  
We have also run equipment like you are describing but if you run a motor at a "crawl" for an extended period of time, you may need to install another fan on the back of the motor for cooling purposed since the motor fan is turning too slow to cool. This is what we did, it was a minor addition though.



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