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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Pipe Fence Paint

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DB

08-26-2004 07:17:36




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I posted a message earlier and received some excellent advice on building a pipe fence, but I forgot to ask one question regarding paint. As you know, some of the pipe will be slick and clean, but some will be rusty. I would like to apply one coat of primer and that's all. I'm not interested in a shiny finish, just a good coat that will be long lasting. I would prefer the color to be brown or black. Question, what product/paint do you recommend? Thanks again in advance for your help.

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RB/CT

08-26-2004 17:49:53




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 Re: Pipe Fence Paint in reply to DB, 08-26-2004 07:17:36  
Ultraviolet rays will fade Por 15 to a flat finish. My vote goes to..... .Rustoleum Red Oxide Primer , the original (used extensively by many railroads) with the FISH OIL in it. However this to me is no where to be found, and is oil based. The fish oil is not there any more with the new stuff. Probably can find a newer product, but at great cost.



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Dozerboss

08-27-2004 02:40:41




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 Re: Pipe Fence Paint in reply to RB/CT, 08-26-2004 17:49:53  
While popular,
The rustoleum paints are poreous and will allow rust to continue. They have small pores like your skin that will allow air and water to reach the metal. Car wax was invented for poreous paints to seal them off from water and oxygen.

There are paints and products out there that will completely eliminate rust. I gather from the posts most of you would not want to spend the money for them on a fence and don't mind the fading.

But for those who want to know, he would need to use a converter such as Ospho on the rusted areas followed by an epoxy primer which is totally water proof stopping the moisture and oxygen from reaching the metal. Then for top coat an acrylic enamel or a urethane enamel will give you the longest lasting finish equivilent to the paint on a car. Steel Fuel trucks are painted with urethane enamels due to their superior resistance to fuel spills. The urethane is a clear coat mixed in with the enamel giving the paint a high gloss. Both of these have superior resistance to UV rays and fading. But require proper breathing equipment to spray.

Rustoleum and other synthetic enamels such as Tractor Supply's paint for tractors have poor resistence to UV rays in addition to being poreous they fade to a dull then chalky appearance. Much like you see on farm and landscape trailers after a year or so. If you did at least use the Ospho converter the rust would stop if you used an epoxy primer over the ospho. Then if rustoleum top coat was used, you could just repaint as it faded without further rusting.

The ospho is used by bridge maintaince and ocean going ship painters on rust. For anyone who wants to repaint a tractor or car etc, visit the paint and body board where you can learn and get great advice about the best materials.

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MAC,IL

08-26-2004 15:57:14




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 Re: Pipe Fence Paint in reply to DB, 08-26-2004 07:17:36  
That red-oxide primer is the way to go, clean up as much as you can on the pipes first, then if you like use the rustoleum paint color of choice. As previously stated on this subject, a good quality of alum. paint works decent also. I dont know what these oil fellows use in alum paint to coat the large tanks, but it holds up OK.



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KX

08-26-2004 13:51:43




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 Re: Pipe Fence Paint in reply to DB, 08-26-2004 07:17:36  
Red oxide OR Aluminum paint. Either way you go, you will want to sand it first to at least knock the big rust scales off. I buy the thick, coarse paper that is for sanding flooring. You dont have to sand much, just 4-5 good swipes. That Aluminum paint goes a LOOOOng way.



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Charles (in GA)

08-26-2004 13:43:41




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 Re: Pipe Fence Paint in reply to DB, 08-26-2004 07:17:36  
Rustoleum red oxide primer, then a Rustoleum oil based gloss paint. I've been using the Leather Brown to finish some exterior exposed door frames/headers on my metal building. Easy to work with, goes a long ways, very durable.

Charles



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txblu

08-26-2004 09:58:48




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 Re: Pipe Fence Paint in reply to DB, 08-26-2004 07:17:36  
Got my idea for paint at the Dallas/FtWorth airport. Had railings all over the place painted "Natures Brown". Thought.....whadda deal. Did it . Nice even coat, repaints it"self. Blends in with the environment.

Only problem for you is your pipe. Mine was all 2 3/8 or 2 7/8 drill stem and 3/4" sucker rod, well used. All had the paint already installed.

Your new pipe probably has black oxide with a polymer top coat to keep it from rusting so you"re gonna hafta install something to match her all up.

Mark

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DB

08-26-2004 11:04:01




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 Re: Pipe Fence Paint in reply to txblu, 08-26-2004 09:58:48  
What's the manufacture and product name of this paint you used? If my pipe is already rusty, would it be okay? Ever used any of that Rust-Oleum "Rusty Metal Primer"? Thanks again.



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txblu

08-27-2004 05:54:26




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 Re: Pipe Fence Paint in reply to DB, 08-26-2004 11:04:01  
I"m pulling your leg, my man. Rust is my paint. That high tensile steel will rust about .020 inch and stop. The oxide protects the steel. What"s surprising, is that the rust doesn"t come off. I can sit on the fence, get off, and not have any on my pants.

I hate to paint, especially fences. Really it looks nice and the brown goes good with the trunks of the trees.

Saved a ton of time and money, and can now play with my tractors instead of paint the darn fence.

Mark

DFW airpirt really has rusted railing all over the place. No joke.

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big fred

08-27-2004 14:35:32




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 Re: Pipe Fence Paint in reply to txblu, 08-27-2004 05:54:26  
It"s probably Armco Iron fence. Armco iron is a generic term for commercially pure iron. It"s often used for decorative architectural uses because it forms an oxide layer which remains pretty stable over time.



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Dozerboss

08-27-2004 21:08:01




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 Re: Pipe Fence Paint in reply to big fred, 08-27-2004 14:35:32  
I knew the utility companys were useing this metal for large power poles. I didn't know what it was called until now or that it was iron instead of steel. Must be cost effective, they were useing galvanized steel before. Haven't seen any of this stuff in my area except for the poles.

That's what aluminum does too, the bright finish oxidizes on the outer surface and acts like a paint. When you polish it back to bright, your actually removing that layer and exposing a new layer of metal. Wearing it away with each polish.

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txblu

08-28-2004 06:42:58




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 Re: Pipe Fence Paint in reply to Dozerboss, 08-27-2004 21:08:01  
that"s a big 10-4 dozerboss. Not being a metallurgist, I don"t know what, in high tensile steel, makes it not rust readily (like cold rolled sheet does), but this stuff is used in oil well drilling and goes down the hole thousands of feet with a drill on the end. They pump "mud" thru the inside to cool the bits and help them dig plus wash out the diggins.

I know Iron crusts over really well, like in sewer pipes, but this is not iron; much much stronger.

Was pretty available around here for a long time as we had a lot of well drilling activity here and in Okla.

Mark

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Dozerboss

08-28-2004 20:57:33




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 Re: Pipe Fence Paint in reply to txblu, 08-28-2004 06:42:58  
Has to be an alloy made from differant metals txblu. I would think a steel, alloyed with other metals for drilling strength, just guessing. Would have to be high strength. Invented to withstand the abrasion of drilling conditions without breaking and not rusting away.

Interesting stuff. There were alloys that they had to invent in the sixties for space that wouldn't melt on lift off or re-entry. Stuff that would just laugh at a plasma or cutting torch.

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txblu

08-29-2004 07:18:38




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 Re: Pipe Fence Paint in reply to Dozerboss, 08-28-2004 20:57:33  
10-4 Nice chatting wid ja.



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John H.

08-26-2004 09:11:50




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 Re: Pipe Fence Paint in reply to DB, 08-26-2004 07:17:36  
Check out a product called Por 15 The web page is www.por15.com

This stuff chemically bonds to rust and is hard as nails.



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Mike M

08-26-2004 10:25:21




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 Re: Pipe Fence Paint in reply to John H., 08-26-2004 09:11:50  
Por-15 is not any good if the sunlight gets to it. It flakes right off. Ask my trailer hitch on the back of my truck. Best thing is the cheapo 99 cent spray paint from WAL-MART just keep putting more on.



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txblu

08-26-2004 09:55:02




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 Re: Pipe Fence Paint in reply to John H., 08-26-2004 09:11:50  
Hope he has deep pockets. Stuff"s about $20 per quart.

Mark



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Dozerboss

08-26-2004 12:28:01




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 Re: Pipe Fence Paint in reply to txblu, 08-26-2004 09:55:02  
Any problem with Por-15 is you need a special primer to paint over it. Nothing will stick to it alone, top coats over it will just chip off like latex and peel in a short time even if you sand it first. Your looking at $30 a qt plus the primer and a metal conditioner called marine clean applied to the rust first. About $60 to get your first quart of paint applied following their directions to the letter. The sunlight does attack this paint, it is best used on a car or truck frame out of the light.

In my opinion, Ospho mentioned by Kendall is a better choice if you have rust already, you can paint anything over it and it will chemically kill the rust by converting it to iron phosphate. It is $20 (acehardware, homedepot) a gallon but is water thin so it covers a large area. It will eat into galvanized, one of its drawbacks.

If you don't care about appearance and have rust, then the guy who said keep spraying Walmart paint over it has given the cheapest solution. That won't help the life of the metal. It will continue to rust away. This is the way many who have large areas of fence do it because its practical for them especially if they will be selling the place someday.

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Dozerboss

08-26-2004 09:03:29




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 Re: Pipe Fence Paint in reply to DB, 08-26-2004 07:17:36  
Is your fence all steel pipe or is it galvanized? Galvanized metals require a special primer or paint will peel in a short time. All steel requires some form of etch for adhesion or paint will peel. Primers are applyed to etched steel to give the top coat something better to stick to than steel and promote better adhesion. Your topcoat chemically bonds to the primer and each coat bonds to the next when applyed properly, which is a stronger bond than a mechanical bond to scuffed, sanded or brushed steel only. That is why the can will tell you how long to wait between coats so you can apply it within the time window for chemical bond. If you don't and miss the window you need to scuff or sand it lightly for a mechanical bond to the next coat to prevent peeling and flaking. Rustolem is a non hardened paint and not nearly as durable as two part paints. You can expect rustolem to fade in heavy sun expose within a year and be chalky in appearence. I mostly answer ?'s related to repainting tractor's on the paint and body board. This is a fence so it depends on the results you want and the $ you wish to spend. Do you want it to shine 5 years from now or just have a coating to prevent it from rusting away regardless of looks?

No offense Ron, one part rustolem is old technology, there are much more durable coatings available if you have spray equipment. You also need the proper safety protection to spray paint. I use mostly automotive quality paints. A cold galvanizing compound is more durable than rustolem and provides better rust protection if all you want is a brush on coating to prevent rust and if you want no part of spraying paint. It has a grey appearence like galvanized and chemically bonds to steel. Spray cans should be avoided, the formula has to be thinned so much to come out of the can it is to weak for protection from the elements.

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Kendall

08-26-2004 09:02:43




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 Re: Pipe Fence Paint in reply to DB, 08-26-2004 07:17:36  
Some primers absorbe moisture so you may be shooting yourself in the foot. Go to your favorite hardware/ home depot type store and in the rust prevention/removal dept, you will find a product called Ospho or some other brand of rust preventative containing phosphoric acid. Brush or spray (can use a household squeeze type spray bottle) on your pipe before painting and you rust problems will go away. The phosphoric acid reacts with the metal to form a layer of iron phosphate which prevents any more oxygen reaching the metal. Kinda like when copper "rust" and turns green (copper oxide), it seals out any more oxygen and no more oxidation can occure.

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pete's dream

08-26-2004 08:29:09




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 Re: Pipe Fence Paint in reply to DB, 08-26-2004 07:17:36  

I would give serious consideration to the asphalt based roof coatings. Many products on the market. Now if it isn't a large project and colour is more important I would use a good latex based paint. Most paint places have very good one coat barn coatings for wood and metal.



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Dozerboss

08-26-2004 21:58:38




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 Re: Pipe Fence Paint in reply to pete's dream, 08-26-2004 08:29:09  
Whoops, i meant the message addressed to Mike M for Pete's Dream.



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Dozerboss

08-26-2004 21:50:44




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 Re: Pipe Fence Paint in reply to pete's dream, 08-26-2004 08:29:09  
Hey Mike M,
What are the aspalt coatings you are refering to?
Many of the steel roofed RV's use white coolseal on the joints and it yellows and cracks in time. I'm always looking for better ideas. I will be repainting an RV with automotive urethane enamel, which is a two part paint with hardner that produces a high gloss clear coat finish. These paints will retain gloss for many years and i'm looking for something more durable for the roof. Do you know of anything new that won't crack?

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Mike M

08-26-2004 10:29:40




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 Re: Pipe Fence Paint in reply to pete's dream, 08-26-2004 08:29:09  
Latex paint ain't worth a hoot on metal. The water base will cause rust before it dries. I haven't had much luck with it holding up outdoors on wood at all,I'm going back to oil based paint if I can find any probabaly get some cheap TSC tractor paint to paint my little out building next.



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TheRealRon

08-26-2004 07:57:10




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 Re: Pipe Fence Paint in reply to DB, 08-26-2004 07:17:36  
Rustoleum, no primer needed, even over rust. Lasts nearly forever.



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