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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

No spark under compression

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500sks

12-13-2004 05:08:01




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A friend of mine has a Harley Davidson golf cart he is playing with and has a problem. The thing has spark with the sparkplug out of the cylinder and no spark under compression. I think it is a coil problem. But he tried changing the coil with one he thinks is good, it has a coil like a car coil from the 70's. What do you guys know about this?




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txblu....thru thinkin

12-13-2004 09:35:19




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 Re: No spark under compression in reply to 500sks, 12-13-2004 05:08:01  
Once you changed the plugs and got no change it hit me. Per the Radio Operator's Manual "....breakdown voltage is approximately proportional to pressure.....".

They're talking about high voltage arcing problems at altitude where the atmospheric pressure goes to zero as compared to 14.7 psi at sea level.

Ok sports fans, on a given engine, the combustion pressure at cranking is roughly 80 to 150 psig. So that 's about 10:1.

That means that the voltage required to fire your plug outta da engin is 1/10 the voltage required to fire it in da engin at cranking rpm's.

So yus need to be chasing the elements of a weak spark.

So those who chose the coil, or the points, or condenser or whatever it takes to get 1/2 LI squared into the coil soas you can bang de plugs wins this round.

Mechanisms, mechanisms, mechanisms, stuff's caused, it doesn't just happen..... mechanisms..... ..

Nuf said.

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JT

12-13-2004 08:41:10




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 Re: No spark under compression in reply to 500sks, 12-13-2004 05:08:01  
I know you replaced the plugs, what brand? Have you cleaned and regapped or replaced points and or/condensor? Could be a spark plug, does not sound as though that is the problem. I would also have a hard time thinking it is a coil. They usually do not beak down cold, they normally do that when they are hot. I wold check points first, then on to bigger and better things. good luck
Jim



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Jay (ND)

12-13-2004 08:26:25




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 Re: No spark under compression in reply to 500sks, 12-13-2004 05:08:01  
I'm stumped - but give the boys at Mountaintop Golf Cars in Banner Elk, NC a call. I will bet they won't be. 828-963-6775 Or even check their website, they have a lot of mechanical info on there. I've called them before and they were quite helpful to me. Dont rule out poor aftermarket parts - that happened to me - a new set of points from these boys made all the difference.

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Cleatus

12-13-2004 07:51:28




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 Re: No spark under compression in reply to 500sks, 12-13-2004 05:08:01  
How do you know the spark goes away when you put the plug back in?

Now I believe those are two stroke motors that run either way for forward and reverse.

That being the case it may have two sets of points. Of which one set is used for each direction and switched for reverse after stopping. (a guess) or some other means of re-setting the timing by considerable amount to achieve this effect.

But anyway a fouled plug may fail to spark under compression.

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farmerjon

12-13-2004 07:30:45




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 Re: No spark under compression in reply to 500sks, 12-13-2004 05:08:01  
Try a different plug wire. A bad one may fire the plug with no compression but not be good enough when you add the resistance of compression. I'd just grab a known good one of the nearest tractor to test. Could be the condenser.



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jOHN k

12-13-2004 06:59:57




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 Re: No spark under compression in reply to 500sks, 12-13-2004 05:08:01  
I would replace the spark plug first. Had a few problems with vehicals that had Champion spark plugs, some would start but would die if you tried to accelerate, others that just didn't fire up. Replaced spark plug with differant brand, no problem. I originally didn't believe that the plugs were the problem.



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500sks

12-13-2004 07:05:52




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 Tried replacing plug in reply to jOHN k, 12-13-2004 06:59:57  
WE tried replacing the plug same thing. Thanks guys keep the ideas coming.



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Bob

12-13-2004 06:51:46




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 Re: No spark under compression in reply to 500sks, 12-13-2004 05:08:01  
A bad coil is likely, or the wrong coil (such as using a coil that needs an external resistor in a system that HAS an external resistor).

A bad condensor can also make for a weak spark, so try that first, as it's a lot cheaper than a coil, or temporarily swap in a known-good used condensor.



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Jim K

12-13-2004 05:25:15




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 Re: No spark under compression in reply to 500sks, 12-13-2004 05:08:01  
Electrons act totally different when under compression, If you have spark outside the cylinder. but none when under compression.
Check and make sure the points are set correctly and clean.and if that don't get you fire get a new coil.



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txblu

12-13-2004 06:35:53




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 Re: No spark under compression in reply to Jim K, 12-13-2004 05:25:15  
and if that doesn't work, get new plugs properly gapped.....I'm thinking about the mechanism that makes it this way. If I stumble upon it I will post it. I don't believe dung happens. Dung is caused. I like to know what causes it.

Mark



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dave blakeman

12-16-2004 15:30:01




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 Re: No spark under compression in reply to txblu, 12-13-2004 06:35:53  
A two stroke can have a plug the looks new but is still fouled. Sometimes if you put a new plug in it does it again.The cylinder is fouled as well as the plug .If you have spark with a lawn mower spark tester the elec. components are probably good.Or take a plug and bend a quarter inch gap see if it jumps that.If so you have strong output.I have gone through several new plugs un fouling a two stroke motor.I am a factory trained harley mechanic that never actually worked on a Harley golf cart.[many other two stokes].The two stroke is a miracle of God.Every downstroke making power.Hopethis helps

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