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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

tools for deisel technology

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randall martin

02-04-2005 18:01:33

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hi i am currently looking at taking courses at either witt in sioux city iowa or iowa lakes community college in emettesburg beacuse iowa lakes has a contract with my local implement dealer vetter equipment. and i just bought a maczimizer bottom box and all the tool racks and drawer liners now was just wandering what else i should all get to work on farm equipment what kind of tools. i will most likely buy all mac beacuse they are better priced and snap on are the better priced of the school

thanks in advanced

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Opa A

02-08-2005 09:37:51

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Re: tools for deisel technology in reply to randall martin, 02-04-2005 18:01:33

I bought 1000 dollars worth of Craftsman tools in high school and other than a few air tools and a decent multimeter, they did me good right up until I finished my apprenticeship 7 years later. By that time I knew I wanted to be in the trade for a long time and have since been buying tools. Quite a few guys who start out in the trade decided it wasn't really for them after a couple of years. Make sure you're going to like pulling wrenches for a living before spending the big bucks on fancy tools. If you do like it you will love working with quality tools on a daily basis.

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Opa A

02-08-2005 09:41:12

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Re: tools for deisel technology in reply to Opa A, 02-08-2005 09:37:51

All of those Craftsman tools still get used all the time altough many have been modified into specialty tools. Have fun learning.

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EIL

02-06-2005 17:36:33

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Re: tools for deisel technology in reply to randall martin, 02-04-2005 18:01:33

I just graduated from a diesel mechanics course at a trade school. I spent 2 1/2 years at the trade school and now I work at an oilfield company as their diesel mechanic, I have been there for over 6 months. Here is what I've learned. Sears has very good deals on large sets of tools, but I preffer to buy a complete set of everything one buy one. I garentee you I have at least 300 sockets, do I need them all, no, will I use them all, probably not, will I run into a problem where I need a socket I don't have due to clearence issues, chances are no. Just make sure you get as many sockets and wrenches as you can afford. Also, one thing that always impressed my teacher was when I would be taking an engine appart, I would always tap EVERY hole to ensure the threads were clean. Also, I would check EVERY cleanance that had to be checked, and thoroughly clean every part before reassembly. This shows that you care. Most people love to shoot the bull while in school, but use every minute to your advantage and learn as much as possible. Also, listen well to every word that the teacher speaks, being able to show him you care is priceless. My teacher told my employer that I was a thorough student and dependable. I got the job when I was still 18, I am now 19 and am making $10.25 an hour. I figure that is pretty good, but it is earned not given. What you put into your schooling will directly affect what you earn. Also, trade schools are going more toward classtime. When I started trade school, we were in the shop 4 days a week, when I finished, we were in the shop maybe one day a week. No need to be buying the best when you will barely touch them. From what I have seen, 1/2 drive gets used about 99% of the time, 3/8" to 1 1/4" six point shallow and deep, wrenches between 5/16" to 1 1/4" also get used with 1/2" and 9/16" being the most commonly used. Buy a simple set is screwdrivers, and pliers. A cheap volt/ohm meter. A ball peen hammer with some punches and chizzles. Buy some prybars and a "ladysfoot" prybar. A 1/2" drive beakerbar, a feeler guage(for checking valves), and since trade schools timically have new engines, metric sockets and wrenches. As others have said, you will contimue to ad to this collection for the rest of your life. Expect to spend at least $800 if you go with craftsman. At the trade school that I went to, they had an agreement with snap-on, if you were a student, you would get a 50% discount on a set. The only probelm was that you would spend $1000 on just enough tools to fill a small carry around tool box. One last thing, people at trade school love to borrow, so I wouldn't buy the best if your tools are left out in the open. One student at school managed to walk off with a snap-on 3/4" drive impact wrench that costs about $1000.

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CRUSADER

02-05-2005 09:02:54

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Re: tools for deisel technology in reply to randall martin, 02-04-2005 18:01:33

Randall,
You have recieved a lot of good advice, tips, and pointers on what to buy as far as tools. Hope I don't step on on anyones toes, but I am going to put a few comments in on the subject also. I also went to a tech school simular to what you have mentioned that you plan to attend. The course had a "supply list" of sorts that required a few basic tools needed in order to learn with and not have to break the bank or borrow from others. Prior to attending and seeing the list, I had already acquired the majority of them and a few others. Books and instruction mauals are a good thing to have also. The "list" included the required books for the classes along with some recommended reading which I still have the majority of from attending this course in the early 80's. I have also quite a decent set/conglomartion of tools and equipment that I acquired for maintaining and repairing Ag & Industrial Equipment. Start out with a good brand of tools but not neccessarily the top of the line. Sear's sell Craftsman and it's a quality tool that won't break the bank (usually). Another good source would be a NAPA Parts Store, Lowe's, Home Depot, or Hardware Store that has a good selection of tools. Have also seen some good tools at CO-OP and Gebo's. As you progress and start making money then start investing in the top of the line stuff. I have tools that I bought when I was in High School (graduated in the late 70's) that are still in the tool box and that are still used whenever I perform maintenance.

later days mate,
Jim

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kraigWY

02-05-2005 08:33:30

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Re: tools for deisel technology in reply to randall martin, 02-04-2005 18:01:33

I've seen this question asked several times, several differant places. I am amazed one pays to got to school then ask others what he should paying the school to teach them. Pay the tutition then make the school earn their pay buy telling you what tools you need. Like others said, I would have got tools before a tool box. You can make a tool box to get you by until you get started. Shoot I had to make tool boxes when I was a freshmen in high school. Anyway I would see what the trade school requres and build from there.

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Bubba

02-05-2005 04:40:14

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Re: tools for deisel technology in reply to randall martin, 02-04-2005 18:01:33

As a mechanic of 40+ years I wish I had a dollar for every young pup who got all worked up about "which tools to buy".

The most important tools you need are:

Education, training, the willingness to buy and read ALL the service manuals for ALL the equipment you will work on, a diesel compression tester, and a fuel system tester.

Hand tools don't matter. I see kid after kid finance $20,000 worth of primo hand tools, fail to do any of the things I just mentioned, and then run an ad in the paper a year later offering to sell the tools for "take over payments". They usually end up getting maybe ten cents on the dollar.

Nothing personal but if you speak in person like you write, go back to school. Most customers won't deal with a mechanic who can't speak English and most equipment is computerized and the manuals they come with make Chinese poetry look easy. The days of the shade tree mechanic are long over. Good diesel mechanics make over $100,000 and the competition for that kind of money is incredible. Good luck to you.

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NC Wayne

02-05-2005 20:15:47

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Re: tools for deisel technology in reply to Bubba, 02-05-2005 04:40:14

Hey Bubba, not trying to be a smart a-- but where are you from that diesel mechanics are making 6 figures a year... becaue I need to think about moving there. I thought I made a damm good wage for what I do and it's nowhere close to $100,000 plus.....a year.

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STEPH MN

02-04-2005 21:56:21

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Re: tools for deisel technology in reply to randall martin, 02-04-2005 18:01:33

Talk to a Matco dealer, they cut deals for techs in schools that are starting out.Craftsman hand tools are real dependable but steer clear of the ratchets

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the tractor vet

02-04-2005 20:43:36

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Re: tools for deisel technology in reply to randall martin, 02-04-2005 18:01:33

I have been twisten wrenches for many years and i have craftsman snapon and mac proto sk and some mattco to start out the craftsman sockets are good and for some jobs since they are of thin wall design they will get in where others won't like sparkplugs of a farmall and there 9/16 12 point is the socket that i use on the 12 point bolt that is on the speed trans to range trans housing on the 06 -88 farmalls and i have had some that are so tight that you have to use a lone braker bar and chetter pipe and it has never broke can't say the same for the rest as they have broken on that bolt As you get into this new field you will keep buying and getting better and as you up grade then you can take the older stuff home so ya can do fixen at home and not always have to drag tools home . And when you are in your fiftys you will stop and look at what you have aquired and wonder why in the heck ya did not go into fixen computers and just have a brief case and a malti meter heck of a lot cheeper. And they make bigger buck and don't get greasy.

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Opa A

02-05-2005 14:19:41

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Re: tools for deisel technology in reply to the tractor vet, 02-04-2005 20:43:36

Same here, 100K worth of tools and make the same or less than a plumber or electrician with the tools on his belt.

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the tractor vet

02-06-2005 19:36:01

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Re: tools for deisel technology in reply to Opa A, 02-05-2005 14:19:41

We have done pasted that mark many years ago and the bad part it seams that every time i buy a new truck i end up getting new tools to work on the darn thing because nobody else can .

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thejdman01

02-04-2005 20:37:20

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Re: tools for deisel technology in reply to randall martin, 02-04-2005 18:01:33

one other thing i have for advice is the biggest problem with younger generations and not all but some is they are "know it alls" and you cant teach or tell them anything. they obviously dont know everything and havent seen everything so alot of people are will ing to teach and help you if your willing to learn and be open. if they have to take extra time to beat something into your head you wont last

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thejdman01

02-04-2005 20:34:13

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Re: tools for deisel technology in reply to randall martin, 02-04-2005 18:01:33

i really hate to be a huge smart behind but first off if you cant even spell diesel your done. theres no more shade tree gomer pile mechanics anymore. if you have spelling mistakes etc esp on your resume you are done from the start. secondly mac has a pretty good student discount when you get inschool i forget if its 15 or 20 percent but its substantial once you can prove your a student so you should have waited. we're not mechanics anymore we're technicians. to make a long story short we had a younger guy do no joke close to 90,000 dollars work on a new excavator (motor work and track work and had to take the house off etc alot of work). not brand new but was on lease. the shop formen was out of town. the grader was less then 4 months old. the technician did the work and wrote up the report to send to mother deere to make the claim. since the formen wasnt there the secretary jsut forwarded to head quarters. i later got a copy of what the tech wrote it was pure crap no grammar spelling etc. mother deere denied the claim. the customer got a 90,000 dollar bill he went crazy. needless to say he wasn't going to pay it. deere wasnt going to pay it. the dealer ate it. needless to say the technician was out the door very quick. theres no more goofing around your either the best or your out the door. too much competition. alot of compnaies dont want to spend the money to train tech because it is very costly to train them and takes them along time before they can let a fresh tech loose and takes a long time before an entry level tech starts making money. remember your working on sometimes 1/2 million dollar equipment down time= lsot revenue and possibly somones life if you have a hydraulic failure it can pierce somones skin. 2 tips if you think its clean clean it agina w/tolerances etc cleanlyness is a must. also if you dont think you get paid well and dont do it right the first time the pay really sucks the second time you have to do it. working on ag equipment inch drive a minimum. recently 148 loader on a john deere 4020. rebuilding cylinders nut is 1 5/8 just for loader cylinder. the best best mechanic i ever saw brought his tools in 2 5 gallon buckets. dumped them out on the bench worked put them back in the bucket went home. borrow once buy next. be independent. dont be bothering a tech thats making 50 bucks an hour but then again dont screw something up because you dont know how to do it right. learn how to read eletrical schematics. learn how to weld maybe becasue less kids are growing up on farms or something doesnt seem like we can find a tech that welds well. also along the lines of tool boxes for your and everyones info theres only about 3 acutal manufactures of tool boxes. waterloo acutally makes the tool boxes for craftsmen at about 300 dollars cheaper. same drawer configureation everything only thing thats important is you get a box w/ball bearings. one tech we had his father owned his own trucking business and gave the kid a 7.3 3500 truck service body. the kid also knew how to change tires which is something alot of kids lack learn how to do it with a hammer and 2 crow bars but he had his own truck and tools on the truck so he was a good asset as if the service truck was gone our shop gladly paid his milage to use his truck. also he kept his tools on his truck and usually jsut drove the truck up next to what he was workign on and could still take his tools home. our dealer actually figures out how much money you make the shop and they figure it out by how much you make the company per square foot the more potential you show and the more money you make them the more shop space you get until you peak off. make your time on tear downs take your time putting it back together. i dont know if vermeer dealer nearby but there great for students. interships, they provide all tools uniforms pretty flexible. at least one we work with is. (alot of tub grinders etc of vermeer run deere engines so we do work for/with them.

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dr.sportster

02-04-2005 20:47:38

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Re: tools for deisel technology in reply to thejdman01, 02-04-2005 20:34:13

jdman,Hey brother you better proofread what you just wrote and stop giving him a spelling lecture.Then you tell him dont bother me but dont screw up. Hows an apprentice going to learn?

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HomerSimpson

02-05-2005 15:27:42

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Re: tools for deisel technology in reply to dr.sportster, 02-04-2005 20:47:38

I agree with Dr. Sportster. By the way, It is A LOT (two words) instead of alot.

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thejdman01

02-05-2005 14:41:50

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Re: tools for deisel technology in reply to dr.sportster, 02-04-2005 20:47:38

i see alot of tools from people dieing or going out of business on auctions cheap. and to dr sportster what i mean by dont bother me but dont screw it up is you obviously dont want to screw up. but on the same token we have had people that wont go to the bathroom by themselves. you have to have some independence mind to yourself and not be walking around asking a million questions. you cant be constantly be draging techs away from jobs to get advice on how to run a rachet. ill be the first to admit i am a terrible typist, one thing ive learned is it is not a problem if you realize you struggle with something and will admit your weakness. i know someday when i got alot of time and get sick of getting greasy and i get rich i will go take a typing class.

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dr.sportster

02-05-2005 18:13:16

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Re: tools for deisel technology in reply to thejdman01, 02-05-2005 14:41:50

jdman,Obviously by your writing you are an intelligent person.I was just chuckling when you mentioned spelling to Randall and then mispelled a little.He did make the buy a big box mistake but he will learn.I agree with you about lending a helper tools.That is once the truck comes next time buy your own.I think every generation thinks the new younger guys are total screw ups in most trades.older guys thought the same about us when we started working in the past.Oh yes that basic Craftsman set he needs cost about 350 not 150 as I told Randall.

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thejdman01

02-05-2005 14:41:24

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Re: tools for deisel technology in reply to dr.sportster, 02-04-2005 20:47:38

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NC Wayne

02-04-2005 20:27:35

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Re: tools for deisel technology in reply to randall martin, 02-04-2005 18:01:33

I have to agree with the other guys in that you've made your first mistake already paying all that money for a shiny new EMPTY tool box. Dad has several old roll around Craftsman bottom and top boxes, still in regular use, that have been around for more than 20 years. About 5 years ago we bought a big Waterloo bottom box and a matching top box to consolidate several of the Craftsman boxes into one so we could use them for other tools. We got the new boxes at a unheard of low price because they were "scratch and dent" specials. Keep your eyes open for deals like this, nobody cares how pretty your box is as long as it hold your tools. The only thing the boss and customer are both gonna care about is if you know how to use the tools that you have... As far as the tools you put in it look back through the old posts on this forum and you'll get plenty of advise on that subject. In a nutshell though, buy what you can afford but don't worry so much about having to have "brand name" tools like MAC and Snap-On. I've got some of each and their special tools are nice, but for the regular "average" wrenches, save your money. Check out Craftsman, Northern Tool and Equipment and NAPA just to name a few. All have some really nice tools that won't break the bank and in my exprince are just as tough as the others that cost 10 times as much. Just my .02 and Good luck.

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Davis In SC

02-04-2005 20:14:22

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Re: tools for deisel technology in reply to randall martin, 02-04-2005 18:01:33

I hate to sound like a broken record... It is worth shopping Flea Markets, Yard sales, want ads, & for sale papers... If you get lucky, you might find a retired mechanic selling off his tools. Often they will sell tools at a good price to a polite young person that is entering the trade. When I entered the machine shop trade, I was fortunate to meet several retiring machinists that gave me a great deal on a big lot of tools. That was over 25 years ago, & I still use many of the tools on a daily basis. I still keep an eye out for good buys on tools... Often you can buy a big lot, keep a few, & turn a profit on the rest.

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Charles (in GA)

02-04-2005 20:06:03

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Re: tools for deisel technology in reply to randall martin, 02-04-2005 18:01:33

Contrary to what others will tell you, the Craftsman hand tools, wrenches, sockets, ratchets, and such are quite good quality, and will do you well. You are certainly going to be working on large sizes so plan on a 3/4 drive set and Craftsman has those too, and decent prices.

If you are an Ebayer, set up a search for "3/4 drive" (no quotes of course) and pick out stuff you are interested in and click to watch the item and see what the final price is, this will give you an idea of what some of the stuff sells for.

Here's an example, Craftsman 3/4 drive set, search for ebay item number 4355352825

I am an airline mechanic and use the large size (above one inch) ocassionally but want good stuff. We have a local tool dealer who handles used stuff from government surplus and aircraft factory surplus. Its all Williams, Proto, Bonney, and the like, and I don't have any qualms about mixing brands to make a set of those large size wrenches. I've gotten some nearly new wrenches for 3 to 5 dollars each.

While they are pricey, I really like Snap-On sockets the best, but Mac are certainly as good. For everyday use as a professional mechanic, stay away from the China made big stuff, I've seen too many broken 3/4 drive sockets and wrenches.

Buy only Snap-on or Mac for your 1/4 drive sockets, others will wear out and you'll hate it. Remember, you are going into this to make a living, not a hobby.

Charles

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RJ-AZ

02-04-2005 19:56:57

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Re: tools for deisel technology in reply to randall martin, 02-04-2005 18:01:33

Looks to me like youv"e already screwed up. Buy the best tools you can get, buy the cheapest tool boxes that will hold up as you will always want a bigger one or more storage anyway. I bought a good used MAC bottom box and have two Crapsman top boxes. But it sounds like the first thing you need is a job.
I just got out of the Army in 1971 and went to a Deere dealer and asked about a job. the man said he needed a mechanics helper and didmI have any tools. I said yep, he said you"re hired and I went up to the CO-OP and bought a setup of tools on my dads account. I still have most of those tools today in my home box.

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george md

02-04-2005 19:46:20

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Re: tools for deisel technology in reply to randall martin, 02-04-2005 18:01:33

Randall, I'm the wrong part of the country to help you make
a choice of schools. As for tool boxes and tools,
the tool box is way less than 10 percent as important as what is in it and what is in the
owners head. As a general rule the bigger and
more fancy the tool box , the less qualified the
mechanic. Employer would much rather see a man
with a well used , well equiped reasonable sized
box than a new shiny one. Well used indicates
the man has some experience ,well equiped with
basics indicates he can make do with what he has. The last man I hired had the biggest box that
Mac makes, he lasted 3 small jobs , 2 of which
I finished . The schooling is much more important than the
show box . I have at least a dozen roller boxes
in the shop , several are just for machine shop
tools and equip,1 for 3/4 and 1 inch drive , the
1 1/2 drive is too heavy for roller cabinets,
several around the shop with hand tools,1 with
boring and honing tools & supplies,1 with diesel
injector and inj pump tool & supplies ,One has
the oxy/acet cast iron welding & other welding
tools and misc. Smaller cabinets placed where needed are better
than one large one.

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dr.sportster

02-04-2005 18:57:25

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Re: tools for deisel technology in reply to randall martin, 02-04-2005 18:01:33

Randall,If you look at a Sears flyer where they show a mechanics tool set on sale for around $150,thats most of the tools to start with;half and half wrenches sockets breaker bar screwdrivers allens etc.You could even buy the Craftsman and then slowly replace with Mac then keep em for back up tools.Ask The Mac dealer for a catalog.look for good used tool deals also to save money.Eventually you will want/need other tools in the catalogs ,thread files and all handy little time savers you will find a need for that Sears wont carry.

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Davis In SC

02-04-2005 21:30:40

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Re: tools for deisel technology in reply to dr.sportster, 02-04-2005 18:57:25

Sportster, funny you mentioned the Sears tool set... Back in the mid 70's I was in high school & Craftsman tools were the thing to have...Then, Sears sold a nice set of tools in a box for 39.99. Every week or so, I would go buy a set of them, keep a few I needed, & sell tools one by one out of my car trunk. It was amazing how much profit I made selling them by the piece. I always had gas money..... .

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lucasss

02-05-2005 08:59:19

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Re: tools for deisel technology in reply to Davis In SC, 02-04-2005 21:30:40

stay curious when working on equipment.i find it helps, lucas

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