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shop wiring 220V

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Jay87T

03-23-2005 13:41:19




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hey guys I just built a new house and forgot to put 220V in the garage for my new air compressor I want to pre wire the 220V wire so the electrician just has to come and hook it up at he hydro panel when he comes back. Im running the wire to a 220V outlet, should I run 10-3 or will 10-2 do? I went to look at my jetpump in the house im in now and its 220V and they only ran 12-2 to it, no outlet just right into the hydro panel, just not sure what to run. any input would be appreciated, thanks.

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dr.sportster

03-24-2005 14:54:32




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 Re: shop wiring 220V in reply to Jay87T, 03-23-2005 13:41:19  
Jay, first your talkin compressor then your talkin weldor,that would be two different 220 circuits.Also the fact that your geussing 10/3 or 10 /2 shows you may need help with this one.3 wire is for multi wire branch circuits or 220 volt loads that require a neutral conductor.Not saying you cant be educated,but you need to look into this further.10/2 comes with a grounding conductor.A weldor may draw 40 amps and require larger than a 10 wire circuit.Buy an electrician some beer or something but dont undersize these important[and heavily loaded] circuits.Didnt even read what others said yet.Just my advice.

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Jay87T

03-25-2005 07:34:33




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 Re: shop wiring 220V in reply to dr.sportster, 03-24-2005 14:54:32  
Its fine, I talked to the electrician at home depot and he told me 10-2 is fine for a 220 volt circut and there wont be any problems running a compressor or a welder off it. only being 20 feet from the hydro panel. welder is only 20 amps peak.



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dr.sportster

03-26-2005 05:06:38




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 Re: shop wiring 220V in reply to Jay87T, 03-25-2005 07:34:33  
Some in Home depot are retired sparkys some are idiots trying to pass themselves off as such.While I was waiting to get a panel off the top shelf[2hours]I heard plenty of bad advice given by a guy that I knew installed power strips into formica boxes for the lottery company.Installing these power strips he considered himself an electrician.I knew he was not and had to listen to his misinfo all night while sweating because Home Depot has no air conditioning.

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buickanddeere

03-26-2005 11:57:47




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 Re: shop wiring 220V in reply to dr.sportster, 03-26-2005 05:06:38  
Isn't the "electrician" in the Home Despot a saleman whose goal is you purchasing product? The saleman isn't going to loose a sale by ticking off a potential customer by telling the customer something he doesn't want to hear.



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buickanddeere

03-25-2005 12:49:57




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 Re: shop wiring 220V in reply to Jay87T, 03-25-2005 07:34:33  
Read Ken and Bigwood again. You seem to be the type that by nature that does the opposite of what you are told to prove your independance.



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buickanddeere

03-25-2005 19:49:06




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 Re: shop wiring 220V in reply to buickanddeere, 03-25-2005 12:49:57  
Jay after re-reading the advice here. Everyone of the respondants raised several valid points pertaining to your health, safety and legality. We get complacent too easily around hazards.



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TomH

03-23-2005 17:10:57




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 Re: shop wiring 220V in reply to Jay87T, 03-23-2005 13:41:19  
Maybe ask the electrician ahead of time.

I don't see why you need a white wire for 220. But the gauge depends on two things: amperage and distance from the service panel.



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Ken Crisman

03-23-2005 17:08:51




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 Re: shop wiring 220V in reply to Jay87T, 03-23-2005 13:41:19  
I see there's a lot of unknowledged short circuited electricians on here . And people wonder why their machinery fails them or their buildings burn down due to electrical . Do yourself & family a favor ; hire a knowledged electrician to wire a 100 amp branch panel in your garage . What you're talking about doing is similar to a guy thinking about towing a 30' trailer behind his volkswagon to save money . Think man think . I've seen several places burn down & lives lost from these antics . Ken

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Jay87T

03-23-2005 17:44:26




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 Re: shop wiring 220V in reply to Ken Crisman, 03-23-2005 17:08:51  
all I need is 1 plug in my garage for 220 volt to power my air compressor, thats it. and perhaps when Im not using my compressor I will use the plug for my small 220 mig. there is about 10 feet from where I wan the plug in the garage to the hydro panel in the basement, I just want to pre wire it for the electrician so he can just come and hook it up, my orignal question was. 10-2 or 10-3 wire for this one plug.

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dr.sportster

03-25-2005 07:50:05




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 Re: shop wiring 220V in reply to Jay87T, 03-23-2005 17:44:26  
To try to answer you and not sound like a jerk; 10/2 to your compressor starter[maybe].Also if the car goes in there code requires rigid conduit not home depot romex.A large compressor is normally hardwired and would not share a receptacle with a welder.S type cords dont get run through walls either[not that S cords were mentioned].You did not supply amperage loads of your equipment so an answer is difficult.Furthermore if you are in Canada all the American electrical advice becomes bogus immediatly.What Im getting at is without creating an electrical hazard any answer is difficult on a forum.If you supplied info about all aspects of your basement and garage layout, amps ,etc etc.you could still receive bad info.I think Im trying to help and your thinking thanks for nothing.An electrical fire just killed four children on tuesday.If a fire was to start in your home and a code violation is detected or construed as the cause by the insurance company and the lawyers you not getting paid for damages.However if you supply more info others will help you .With what you have so far it is very difficuly.Its a touchy subject.I like you and I like your compressor you posted pictures of but yet dont want to be the cause of bad things happening through poor advice.Thats all.

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dr.sportster

03-24-2005 14:57:08




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 Re: shop wiring 220V in reply to Jay87T, 03-23-2005 17:44:26  
No responsible insured electrician will hook up the work of a homeowner.



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buickanddeere

03-24-2005 02:24:10




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 Re: shop wiring 220V in reply to Jay87T, 03-23-2005 17:44:26  
Do what you want but we are trying to keep you from hating yourself later. How and where is this NMD-7 you are buying going to be ran? #6 four conductor is cheap and the 30A or 60A breaker costs the same. Same price for the electrician to hook up as well. 60A panels with breakers are cheap new and can be had almost for free used in good condition. Inrush current to start the compressor you have now and the bigger one you are purchasing in the future needs at least #6 copper. You don't want to be using any power tools or vehicle block heaters off the same circuit as the garage lights. Re-setting a breaker gets old real fast. The breaker will start to trip light or heavy after a few poundings as well. The dimming of lights everytime a saw or grinder starts gets annoying as well. You just spent $150,000+ to build a house. Saving $50.00 on garage power isn't the place to pinch pennies. Skipping an alarm system to detect smoke, carbon monoxide, high temps from fire, freezing temps from furnace failure and flood detection? That false economy costs less than the deduction and premium savings on your home insurance. Let alone the mess,loss and your family's health.

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big wood

03-23-2005 17:27:43




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 Re: shop wiring 220V in reply to Ken Crisman, 03-23-2005 17:08:51  
Ken,That has to be the best electrical advice to date! Yes Im an electrical contractor,but gave up beating my head aginst the wall trying to help.Its way to pain full!! Have a great day.



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old

03-23-2005 14:59:33




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 Re: shop wiring 220V in reply to Jay87T, 03-23-2005 13:41:19  
I'd use 8-3 even if 10-3 meets code you never know when you will want more power and if you wire it to lite you will not have enough if you ever up grade



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Jay87T

03-23-2005 14:04:25




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 Re: shop wiring 220V in reply to Jay87T, 03-23-2005 13:41:19  
Oh and also I want to run a 220V welder off that outlet when Im not using the compressor.
Im thinking its 10-3 but I need to know for sure before I hit the home depot.
Thanks.



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RustyFarmall

03-23-2005 14:18:27




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 Re: shop wiring 220V in reply to Jay87T, 03-23-2005 14:04:25  
How big and what type of welder? If it is a common wire welder then you can run 10-2 with a ground. I know it works but I don't know if the 10-2 will meet the code, in which case you will need 10-3. If your welder is a big stick welder you will need much larger than #10. Maybe #6 or #4.



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Jay87T

03-23-2005 14:33:10




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 Re: shop wiring 220V in reply to RustyFarmall, 03-23-2005 14:18:27  
Power consumption: 230 VAC, 21 amps (peak) at 60 Hz is for the welder the compressor takes only about 12 amps or so, thing with 220Volts I didnt understand is does it take 3 conductors to work or 2?



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FarmerSid

03-23-2005 15:10:53




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 Re: shop wiring 220V in reply to Jay87T, 03-23-2005 14:33:10  
You will need wire with 2 conductors and 1 bare copper. Each of the 2 conductors will carry 120 VAC for a total of 240 VAC. You will need a 2 pole breaker or double pole breaker for this. Each pole has one of the two conductors connected to it. The bare will go to the ground bus. The other end of the wire goes to the pressure switch on the compressor. There is a little cover over the pressure switch and inside the cover should be a wiring diagram.

If I were you, I"d run a separate circuit for the welder. I"ve installed plugs for welders and such for as much as 60 AMPS. Your welder must be pretty small if the ratings are 21 AMPS. I"d wire it for 40 AMPS and that"s all that I"d use on that circuit. If you ever decide to get a plasma cutter, you will need air as well so you would be SOL if you plan on using the same plug for your welder and compresor.

What you should really do is run like 60 AMPs to your garage to a small sub panel. Inside that panel spit the 60 AMPS up and have breakers for your welding plug, compressor and anything else you would like to have in your garage. That way you can finish your garage and never have to worry about having enough power.

Just some of my thoughts.

Better looking at it than looking for it! That"s my motto.

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buickanddeere

03-23-2005 15:28:56




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 Re: shop wiring 220V in reply to FarmerSid, 03-23-2005 15:10:53  
Amen. Conduit for protection and run four #6's from the main panel to the shop pony panel. Red,Black,White and bare copper. Your new wires cannot be non metalic sheathed cable running in any "exposed areas" between the panels. Pop the ground bonding screw out of the pony panel by the way. When building the new house, have you installed a transfer switch for a generator at the service or a 225 AMP FPE or 200 AMP Reliance Electric transfer panel. This is the time to rough in the alarm and smoke detectors before everything is drywalled and finish painted. Domestic fire sprinklers in the furnce, laundry and den areas near a wood buring stove, garage and kitchen are a real good idea.

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Gerald J.

03-23-2005 15:28:41




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 Re: shop wiring 220V in reply to FarmerSid, 03-23-2005 15:10:53  
Actually you need three wires with a separate ground wire. You need to keep neutral (white) and ground separated except at the main panel for safety.

Yes the circuit will work using the ground wire for the neutral, but if that wire breaks you fry between the case of tool and the damp concrete floor. Sometimes you die.

In the US its code to keep neutral and ground separated, I don't know about Canada, but I do know how several have died in Iowa that I've investigated.

Gerald J.

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dr.sportster

03-26-2005 04:53:12




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 Re: shop wiring 220V in reply to Gerald J., 03-23-2005 15:28:41  
There is an exception in stoves.For some reason the grounding conductor and neutral can be bonded in an electric stove.Never understood it but often comes crimped together in a stove.



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Stickler

03-24-2005 05:56:04




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 Re: shop wiring 220V in reply to Gerald J., 03-23-2005 15:28:41  
Canada's been that way since long before I got into the electrical trade in 77.



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