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cement mix

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504-1

07-04-2006 21:54:01




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I need a little help,spec calls for 5000 psi morter mix sand no gravle. I have cement, and 3 ton of washed sand and a mixer(no way to get a truck in there and no money to pay for a pump truck) I need a formula and sugstions. Thanks Kevin




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Butcher

07-05-2006 19:41:58




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 Re: cement mix in reply to 504-1, 07-04-2006 21:54:01  
You didnt say what you are doing. Just laying block? or brick venier on a house? Or something eles? If you have a fullbatch mixer throw in a 90lb bag of morter mix,22 shovels full of sand and add water till it works for you. If you want to heat it up abit throw a couple shovels full of portland in too.



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Billy NY

07-05-2006 18:40:40




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 Re: cement mix in reply to 504-1, 07-04-2006 21:54:01  
If it's specified and you must provide it per spec.'s per a contract definitely get a design mix from a reputable source, like a licensed professional engineer at concrete plant or firm that does this kind of work. ASTM reference standards may be helpful here, but is a little more engineering related than hands on.

I would not place any material until you have a design mix that has either been used before or has been created by someone who knows what they are doing, sounds like this is a contract job, and aside from what we do at home, you do not want to place questionable material and be liable for it. It's one thing to use your own mix at home for misc. projects, but providing a defective mix on a job can be easily detected and linked to the contractor, thus making them a liable party.

Once you have a design mix, you can convert the increments to be able to mix by hand, make sure you maintain the amounts per the mix, when you change the water to cementitious material ratio ( portland cement ) water/cement ratio you can easily change the compressive strength of the material, so if you make the mix, paying close attention to the amounts of the materials you use, and it's hot out and the mix stiffens, you decide to add water to loosen it up, you will weaken the compressive strength, so mix what you can use immediately do not add water then start over when you need more, don't mix more than you can use and let it sit too long either.

Sounds like a masonry project, be it concrete masonry units (C.M.U./block, brick etc. also remember these can soak up the water in the mix quickly) so if your mix is too dry, hot out, it might also have an effect on the mix by absorbing the water too rapidly from the mortar mix, you may want the block/brick to have some moisture content and not be bone dry. You don't want the hydration process ( curing ) accelerated too much is the point I am making here, if it shrinks too much, too quickly you may not get a good bond to the substrate, be it block, brick, stone or whatever you are using.

Also, you would be wise to go to a local materials testing company, and get mortar cube forms, get enough to test the mix before you do the job, 4 cubes should be taken per so much material mixed, or each batch made. They can break these 4 times at 7, 14, 21 and 28 days, you might be able to predict what the ultimate strength will be at 28 days from an earlier break. 28 days is what it takes to cure 99.9 percent. Then while doing the job, it would also be wise to take mortar cube forms and fill them with samples representing each batch you make, for each section of the work you do to conclusively prove that 5000 p.s.i. was the strength and is documented 100% for the job as being compliant to the documents. I know it sounds ridiculous, but trust me if you are ever called on questionable material, following a procedure like this will carry a lot of weight in a court of law, illustrating that the contractor was competent in performing the work and providing the specified materials per contract documents. Make a sketch of the work or a copy of the area from a contract drawing and record where each days work ends, matching the mortar cubes taken that day. You want to tag the cubes somehow and identify where it was used in the work.

Don't mind me, was and still am a construction professional in the idustry for many years, you can apply the above suggestions as you wish, maybe it's just a small job and you don't need to be so stringent, however if you are liable for providing a specified material, or it is a structural component, trust me, this is sound procedure. Those mortar cubes and test reports are well worth doing trust me, and make sure to follow ASTM procedure for filling the test cube forms, might have to rod them ( pack ) a little. Concrete test cylinders are filled in 3rd's and rodded 25 times at each level, then neatly screeded off the top for example.

If you are grouting a wall, use care and do it in lifts, just like concrete, lot of pressure, best to do so much at a time and or use some bracing, have seen blowouts, makes a mess and you get to to the work over again.

Anyways, hope this is of some help.

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swms301

07-05-2006 07:00:52




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 Re: cement mix in reply to 504-1, 07-04-2006 21:54:01  
For a 5000 psi mortar mix you are looking at around 6 sacks of cement, 30 gal water, 1700 lb of sand per cubic yard. Roughly 6 cf cement, 4 cf water, 17 cf sand. If they specify 5000 psi then the owner or designer may want test results to verify the mix design and the in place product.

For a recent project we bid the specified mortar mix was one part portland cement, 1/4 to 1/2 part lime, three to four parts sand. This did not have a strength spec for the mortar.

Good luck.

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Sam#3

07-05-2006 05:59:41




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 Re: cement mix in reply to 504-1, 07-04-2006 21:54:01  
What is the use? As stated below morter is usually used for bonding such as brick or blocks and won't contain gravel. Concrete is for poured walls, flatwork and such. However, morter should have a load spec since it does support weight. I just never heard of it before.



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old

07-04-2006 22:18:12




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 Re: cement mix in reply to 504-1, 07-04-2006 21:54:01  
You want motor or porland. Motor is for doing things like bricks and rock walls and potland it for foudations and cement walls. I have always been told to mix 7 to 1. 1 part cement to 7 parts sand and or gravel. Can't say what the PSI would be on that mix just know thats what my dad used every time he did something with cement



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Pooh Bear

07-04-2006 22:34:17




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 Re: cement mix in reply to old, 07-04-2006 22:18:12  
I've always been told the mix is 3-2-1
3 gravel, 2 sand, 1 portland cement.
Of couse my Dad always stretched it a little.
Like 5 gravel and 3 sand depending on the project.
And for mortar mix it is a 1:1 mix. One mortar, one sand.

You could try searching the link below.

Pooh Bear



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504-1

07-05-2006 20:34:34




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 Re: cement mix in reply to Pooh Bear, 07-04-2006 22:34:17  
Thanks everybody,The job is to grout the base of my new shop. Steel building no frame, it sets in a trough and gets grouted 8in up inside and out. They call for a very fine finish to keep water from standing next to the steel. I mixed some with bag mix but I`ll have the price of the shop in just add water mix. I mixed two loads of portland and sand but it just didn`t look right.I changed mixers and i`ll try with the old Wards mixer Thr. night.

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