setting barn poles.

I found this and thought you might like a look. I know nothing about it, just stumbled onto it.
Best of luck on your project. Let us know how it works out.

Roger

• POST PROTECTOR

Randy

• Astro

If you set poles in mud or water, you are asking for trouble. With dry ground year round they will last along time. If a pole building settles, it is no big deal to fix if you do it before it settles to much and twists the building. Many cookies settle a little because of loose soil under it from the digger, or a void under it when setting. It happens often.

The given excuse is "all I want is a cheap building" OR "I just needed to get something up quick". Same thing I said. Well, quick or cheap or whatever ...it becomes a permanent structure on your place and you'll be living with it as long as you stay there or survive.

Keep all wooden structure away from the ground....not on it or in it...even if it is pumped full of arsenic. Your investment will last many times longer and prevent future headaches.

Now everybody pile on and tell me how super your pole buildings are and how granpappy built them in the 1940's. Would you build your house like that? Then why build anything this way? I did, and wish I never had.

For a pole barn or smaller pole type structure, they are cost effective and easy to build, and can be more suceptible to problems beacuse the posts are below grade, especially if your soils rot posts and are unstable, then it makes no sense to build unless you can mitigate the problem. Not sure what happened on yours, and I can't exactly say how mine will perform, but within reason, it ought to be fine, based on what I have done and the soil conditions, and I could be wrong, time will tell. More worried about wind here, up on a hill, could uplift a roof more than anything else.

The question posed here brings up the familiar scenario about pole structures, if you can preserve the wood, you may be surprised at the longevity you can get from one, but if the ground is wet and the posts are not preserved well, it may not last as long. Look at utility poles, around here they can last 50 years, there are some here that old on the power line easment.

What started as a pole barn, morphed into a garage. I got tired of laying on a dirt floor and not being able to heat the place. So, I poured a floor. Now, when the building was first erected...one side was lower than the other by maybe a foot. Being a 'barn' it didn't matter as I squared the posts at the top. But when the floor was to be poured, I had to add fill. Lots of dirt and then limestone rock. Then the floor was poured. A couple years later and saving some money up, I then studded the building, insulated and sheetrocked it. When I went to install the stud panels is when I discovered the building had settled in 2 or 3 places. The saving grace is I poured the floor 6 inches thick with 4500 psi concrete. The stud panels rest on the floor and tie into the walls and hopefully this will distribute the weight of the building onto the studs/floor and arrest any further settling. Otherwise, in years to come, the corners of the building will be sagging and will require jacking up.....NO GOOD! I was young and full of pi$$ and vinegar back when I built this structure and couldn't be convinced that an $800 foundation (in 1980 dollars) was worth the time and money. So now, a building worth $20,000 is held up by 6x6's and a prayer the stud walls help. I'm almost 50 years old and I suppose if the building lasts another 27 years....it won't matter much, so far as I am concerned. But, it could have lasted a hundred years...had a proper foundation been used.

Posts set:

I carved this out and graded it off, did some layout, then set the posts, it's tucked within some trees, so it will landscape nicely around it, a good spot for it, also has a 16' side door + both ends open, and I can put an annex to the right for additional shed storage off that side.

I set these 18'-0" 6"x6"'s with no help, kind of a pain, having some one hold em once set where you want it, makes it so much easier and I'll not do these by myself again. The opportunity arised quick allowing this to happen, availability of a free hoe etc. so I did the best I could, could have set them on something like those cookies, but the soil is similar to 4 ton class soil, so I'm not worried time really did not allow for finess work, would have taken a bit more time to hold elevation when working alone, but the building is quite square and the tops are even well within tolerance. I think they will hold and last quite awhile. The rest will be a little more fun.

I always enjoy these questions regarding pole type and other buildings. The responses from all around are interesting because of the variables like soil conditions, connection details and associated costs.

I've often thought of trying to figure a way to keep posts out of the ground, but it's never easy, nor cheap as I see it. I often thought that a precast concrete extension, the same dimension as the post designed to extend the end of a post via connection plates, for the depth of ground contact would be an interesting solution for posts that may prematurely succomb to associated ground moisure and subsequent decay. I'm sure there are foundation designs that may allow for post connections above ground, but higher costs will be associated I'm sure. Food for thought, how to improve the durability of posts set in the ground. Not the first to try figure that one I'm sure.

I would think that you would need to set these into the ground to be stiff and brace as necessary, 12" auger ought to work if the soil is not too hard, if hard, try softening it up with water, rocks they are a pain to deal with. The detail around posts below ground, so many variables to consider, but heavily preserved wood is a good start. Plenty of decks are built on sono tube piers, but can you make a connection on top, brace the frame of the building and still make it stiff as if the posts were in the ground 4'-5' ? If the shell were stiff then it would seem like the same thing as setting it on a foundation, just need to anchor it down, not familiar with the options on that. With windload to consider, the anchor detail would have to be substantial.

I've also realized that nothing lasts forever when it comes to buildings, and with my tendencies for overkill in an attempt to create something that will last a long time, kind of have to compromise a bit or nothing gets done LOL !

I set the posts for my latest fiasco, LOL, a 20'-0" x 32'-0" building, these were .40 or could have been .60 CCA P.T. 6"x6"x18' delivered in the late 70s and sat until last year, on their sides, out in the open, the result of someones project that never happened. The carpenter ants did several of them in but miraculously stayed within certain timbers and left the rest alone. Several years ago I retrieved them, then when ready to use, I treated the bottoms with creosote and old motor oil, had found a jug of creosote laying around and decided to use that and used motor oil, was nice and hot out, so they were dry and soaked it up nicely. I set them as deep as I could, I still have to bring the grade up, so eventually they could be 5 feet in the ground and still give me 12'-0" height, soil is well drained here and I used the same soil around them for packing, after a few heavy rains, they settled in and are stiff. Figuring that once the roof is on, with 2' or 3' overhangs, gutters and good surface drainage around, these posts ought to hold up as the ground moisture should be kept to a minimum I would think. I like utility poles, they seem to last a long time around here, power company is doing some major work on the easement through our place here and there are some not so old ones coming out, not sure if they will allow me to grab a few, but I'll take those anytime I can get em.

I've always been savvy about finding useable materials and other resources, and these posts I used were no cost, neither was the late model hoe I used to set them except the fuel and grease have a pile of good used lumber from a demo job and some sawmills to check in with for other materials, so far the costs have been minimal, can't wait to get more done on it. Like doing demo work and finding good used materials, with the costs today, hard to ignore.

'Here' encasing wood poles in a concrete sock like that ensures it will rot off quickly. A real bad idea. I hear it works in other climates, so who knows. But would _not_ stick the pole inside of 5 foot of concrete.

If you attach the pole on top of a concrete pier, remember that a pole shed depends upon a lot of lateral support for the poles (typically from being in good clay ground) so you need to make the attachment _very_ solid, so as to make the concrete foot & the wood pole as one, no flex between them.

--->Paul

Like I say, I hear of that done in other places, so it must work well in some climates. So I'm not saying what you need to do.

I wouldn't do that here.

--->Paul