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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

tow vehicle weight vs. trailer weight?

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circus

09-04-2007 05:06:53




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Is there a rule of thumb for tow vehicle weight vs. trailer weight? My fwd manual mini van's got gobs of power but no weight and gets 27 mpg. My pickup is a brick and gets 10 mpg. My 7000 lb. trailer has brakes. It's tempting to use the mini van. Got any horror stories?




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circus

09-06-2007 19:25:49




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 Re: tow vehicle weight vs. trailer weight? in reply to circus, 09-04-2007 05:06:53  
Thanks all. The responses were as expected. Guess the pickup (brick) wins. Wonder what the weights ratio of a tractor-trailer work out to be?



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maplehillfrm

09-09-2007 14:57:24




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 Re: tow vehicle weight vs. trailer weight? in reply to circus, 09-06-2007 19:25:49  
here are some average weights.. a truck tractor weighs around 17- 20,000 lbs,,, a trailer weighs between 9-13,000 lbs some heavier some lighter,,with 18 wheels to distribute that weight as opposed to 8 wheels on a 18' trailer,that you would be hauling,

average about 30,000 lbs empty weight,, they can legally haul 80,000 lbs,, I cant figure out the ratio but maybe with the numbers you can,,

keep in mind that a tractor trailer combo can move the weight around by means of positioning the fifth wheel and the trailer axles,[both move by means of pins],

they are only allowed a certain amount of weight on each,, much like the tongue weight ,, if the trailer axles are too heavy he can move the axles to move weight to the truck to equallize it.. hope that helps, I reallize this is a few days old but oh well, pat

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JoeK(WI)

09-04-2007 23:16:15




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 Re: tow vehicle weight vs. trailer weight? in reply to circus, 09-04-2007 05:06:53  
Mini vans are typically a stretch formed tin box,no proper frame rails or crossmembers.The strongest part of the entire undercarriage is the anti collision subframe in the front and around/under engine.The small hitch recievers most use are generally rated about a max of 200 tongue weight and 3000 total.GVWR rating should be on door/doorframe or in glovebox.This would include fuel,cargo luggage,weight on hitch and weight of all passengers,dogs etc.As mentioned below it is not hard to "max out" a mini even w/o trailer or roof cargo.Have driven Caravan/Voyager,Lumina,Aero/Windstar and even w/o passengers,personally I think a couple ATVs,a small boat or utility trailer would be about all I'd try for,say 1500lb,even for short trips on open roads.

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KEB

09-04-2007 18:31:26




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 Re: tow vehicle weight vs. trailer weight? in reply to circus, 09-04-2007 05:06:53  
Sorry to be blunt, but I can describe that idea in three words: dumb, dumb, & dumber.

Based on the fact that your mini-van gets 27 mpg, I'm assuming its one of the smaller ones (best we ever did in several of them was around 20). I'd be willing to bet that the maximum towing capacity is somewhere between zero and a couple thousand pounds.

First, pulling more than what the vehicle is rated for will instantly void your warrantee (besides being a good way to break something)

Second, just think how much fun a shyster lawyer could have if you got in an accident towing several times what your vehicle is rated for.

Third, this would be a classic case of the trailer wagging the tow vehicle. Rule of thumb I heard somewhere a long time ago, unless the tow vehicle is rated for something higher, total weight of trailer and load should not exceed the weight of the tow vehicle.

Fourth, I'd be willing to bet that the combination would be really unstable on the road. If you have a 7,000 lb trailer, you'll need to have something on the order of 700 lbs on the hitch in order to keep the trailer stable. Just think how light the steering will be with an extra 700 lbs hanging off the back of the minivan trying to lift the front wheels off the road.

Fifth, if any cop who cares about safety on the road saw you like that, you'd likely get a citation - 7000 lbs behind a small minivan is a pretty obvious issue.

Sixth, even if the trailer has good enough brakes to lock its wheels, it'll probably still push you past where you would normally stop. Plus when you apply trailer brakes the trailer will try to rotate around the braking axle which results in a weight shift to the hitch, putting more weight on the back of the minivan, thereby lifting even more weight off the front wheels of the minivan (which do most of the braking and all the steering).

I once towed a car trailer with a old jeep pickup on it with a Mercury Grand Marquis wagon. Even with air shocks on the wagon to make it sit level it was a pretty scary trip. I estimate the load weighed around 7,000 - 8,000 lbs, and the car weighed somewhere around 4500 lbs. I'll be your minivan won't break 3,000...

Keith

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RobMD

09-04-2007 16:07:42




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 Re: tow vehicle weight vs. trailer weight? in reply to circus, 09-04-2007 05:06:53  
I've passed minivans pulling 15 foot campers and loaded with luggage and a canoe on the roof.

I could barely read the rpms driving alongside one, and if I took this right, the tach needle was pointing to the upper right, which would give it about 4500-5000 rpms or so on the highway.

Great way to blow up the family car.



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Nolan

09-04-2007 10:59:38




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 Re: tow vehicle weight vs. trailer weight? in reply to circus, 09-04-2007 05:06:53  
Not enough information to go on. Some minivans, particulary certain Mopar models, could handle that 7,000 lbs with ease, and are rated for that.

But you didn't say how much load your towing. With much less weight than that maximum trailer capacity, and many more minivans can handle the load.



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RustyFarmall

09-04-2007 08:22:05




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 Re: tow vehicle weight vs. trailer weight? in reply to circus, 09-04-2007 05:06:53  
It makes no difference if your trailer has brakes, the brakes will only help you get the thing stopped. The problem is that the tounge weight of the trailer will greatly exceed the rated capacity of your mini-van and you will be dragging the rear of the van on the ground, which won't be nearly as serious a problem as the fact that you won't be able to keep the whole thing on the road anyhow because that heavy trailer will immediately begin whipping from side to side (the tail wagging the dog syndrome) and you will quickly find yourself either in the ditch or in a head-on collision with on-coming traffic. Besides that, the transmission in the mini-van will NOT last very long under that kind of abuse.

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buickanddeere

09-04-2007 08:14:35




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 Re: tow vehicle weight vs. trailer weight? in reply to circus, 09-04-2007 05:06:53  
1000lb gross trailer with electric brakes is lots for a front wheel drive mini. In fact just loading a mini with max passengers and some luggage will max the vehicle out.



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JML755

09-04-2007 08:07:26




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 Re: tow vehicle weight vs. trailer weight? in reply to circus, 09-04-2007 05:06:53  
Also, consider that you could have insurance problems if you exceed the mfr GVWR and you have an accident (or so I've heard, can't speak from experience, thankfully). As Bob says, check the sticker.



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Bob - MI

09-04-2007 07:14:06




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 Re: tow vehicle weight vs. trailer weight? in reply to circus, 09-04-2007 05:06:53  
There should be a max towing weight stated on the door sticker or in the owner"s manual. Based on today"s fragile vehicle designs I would not exceed the manufacturer"s max rating.



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