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Wiring 3 phase welder

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Mark-Mi

09-24-2007 19:31:38




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Need help wiring 3 phase welder. In my fuse box there are 3 poles. One pole is 120 volts, another is 126 volts, and the third is 213 volts. Knowing that the green wire on the welder cord is the ground, does it matter how the other three are connected? In the owner's manual it does not specify any particular way of connecting the three wires.
I find it odd that when I test one of the 120 volt poles with the 213 volt pole I get 240 volts. I am used to testing 2 120 volt poles and it equaling 240 volts.How can 213 and 120 come up to 240?Mark[/url][/list][/list][/code]

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rick dant

09-26-2007 06:06:04




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 Re: Wiring 3 phase welder in reply to Mark-Mi, 09-24-2007 19:31:38  
I have been in the welding supply industry for over 26 years. I am very familiar with the Miller CP-302. This machine is not phase sensitive so it does not matter what colors (l1,l2,l3) are where. The only one that matters is the green one (ground). However make sure that the input voltage straps are linked to the proper voltage for the input. You can go to the website and get a free owners manual www.millerwelds.com service link enter model and serial number found on data tag and you can download one free of charge.

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Mark-Mi

09-26-2007 13:52:59




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 Re: Wiring 3 phase welder in reply to rick dant, 09-26-2007 06:06:04  
Rick,thanks for checking in. I down loaded manuals and checked voltage.Welder was set up for 460v.460v only takes 3 straps so Ithought I would have to order 3 more.Took one off, straps were all there just doubled up.Mark



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caterpillar guy

09-25-2007 10:47:02




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 Re: Wiring 3 phase welder in reply to Mark-Mi, 09-24-2007 19:31:38  
might check the tag on the welder first to see if it is even 3 phase or not.



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deano

09-25-2007 10:14:23




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 Re: Wiring 3 phase welder in reply to Mark-Mi, 09-24-2007 19:31:38  
What you have is know as a "High leg" or "wild leg" delta service. Voltage should be about 230V phase to phase. You will see approximately 120V on two legs to neutral (usually a&c) and approximately 208-213 on the remaining leg to neutral. If your welder is a true three phase 230 volt model you just hook up the phases and ground the green wire. This is a fairly common service in rural areas, they just tie single phase transformers together to make it so it's inexpensive.

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Mark-Mi

09-25-2007 19:22:03




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 Re: Wiring 3 phase welder in reply to deano, 09-25-2007 10:14:23  
Thanks deano ,JohnT and the rest.I"ve heard it called Michigan wild leg.I don"t hardly ever work with it on the farm but you have joged my memory I beleive i have heard it called center tapped Delta service.The high voltage wire is red or they wrap a piece of red tape around it.
Yes it is a 3 phase welder,thats how I was able to buy it so cheap.Miller cp302 power source with wire feeder.



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John T

09-26-2007 06:22:37




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 Re: Wiring 3 phase welder in reply to Mark-Mi, 09-25-2007 19:22:03  
Fer sure, They (the hot/red legs) were usually wrapped with red tape where I designed in Indiana also. Also its indeed called a center tapped delta cuz all you have is three 240 volt line to line transformer windings connected together in delta and one of them happens to be center tapped same as a regular 120/240 home service type transformer and that is earth grounded and serves as the Neutral and is why you get the 2 legs of 120 (to neutral) but 240 across both. We tried to balance the loads so all 3 legs were equal but if that center tapped leg had a lot of unbalanced 120 it could be difficult grrrrr rrrrr it often bore the brunt of the work when there wasnt much single or three phase 240 volt work going on

Let us know how it turns out

John T

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John T

09-25-2007 12:23:50




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 Re: Wiring 3 phase welder in reply to deano, 09-25-2007 10:14:23  
We also refer to them in the trade (where I practiced at least) as "Red Leg" as in my Para. C description in my post below. Some didnt like them cuz if non trained personell were around them that Red/High Leg got them awfulllll lll confused and laymen just werent at all familair with what they had or how they worked which could get someone hurt. However, there were some buildings where the loads and useage just cried out for that service so we went with it and had but one exterior building service with no need for wasteful interior dry transformers.

Fun discussion yall take care n be safe n watch out for them red or high or wild legs now lol

John T

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buickanddeere

09-25-2007 07:01:54




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 Re: Wiring 3 phase welder in reply to Mark-Mi, 09-24-2007 19:31:38  
Is the welder really 3 phase or single phase which requires high amperage 240 or high voltage 480V or 600V? Most welders I've seen just require single phase 240V,480V or 600V single phase. Two out of three lines of a three phase supply is used just because 480 or 600 usually isn't found on a single phase utilty supply



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Mark-Mi

09-25-2007 19:32:33




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 Re: Wiring 3 phase welder in reply to buickanddeere, 09-25-2007 07:01:54  
buickanddeere a thank you to you about 3 or 4 years ago I asked what would be a good starter for a 4020.You recomended one made in Yugaslavia?I forget the name Isk something.Anyhow the starter has been great much better than the Delco.Thanks again Mark.



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buickanddeere

09-26-2007 08:35:38




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 Re: Wiring 3 phase welder in reply to Mark-Mi, 09-25-2007 19:32:33  
Glad to be of assistance. One can't install a starter, cables and battery that are too large on a diesel engine.



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John T

09-25-2007 08:19:42




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 Re: Wiring 3 phase welder in reply to buickanddeere, 09-25-2007 07:01:54  
Glen, it may be tough for us to figure this one out over the net cuz FIRST we dont know what service is available in his "Fuze Box" and SECOND, as you point out, were not sure if his welder is actually three or just single phase????? ? If it has 3 wires it may well only be two single phase line conductors plus an equipment ground????

John T



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Dusty MI

09-25-2007 06:38:00




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 Re: Wiring 3 phase welder in reply to Mark-Mi, 09-24-2007 19:31:38  
May I ask where in Michigan? I'm south west of Lansing.



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Mark-Mi

09-25-2007 19:23:52




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 Re: Wiring 3 phase welder in reply to Dusty MI, 09-25-2007 06:38:00  
Dusty I am in Lenawee county.Mark



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John T

09-25-2007 06:35:03




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 Re: Wiring 3 phase welder in reply to Mark-Mi, 09-24-2007 19:31:38  
Mark, You BETTER find out what service is feeding that fuse box !!!!! !!!!! Sure its 3 phase???? How many wires enter it??? Any Green or bare wires and where atatched??? Any White wires and where atached???

A) If the service were straight 240 volt only 3 phase floating 3 wire Delta, there would be 240 volts between any two terminals, so since you mention 120 volts, IT DONT SOUND LIKE THATS WHAT YOU HAVE..... .....

B) If the service was a 208 Y 120 volt three phase 4 wire grounded Y, there would be 208 volts between any phase wire to another, but 120 between any phase wire to the Neutral..... ...

C If the 3 phase service is from a 120/240 volt three phase 4 wire center tapped system (high or red leg system) there would be 240 volts from any leg to another,,,,, ,,120 volts from 2 of the legs (on the center tapped winding) to Neutral,,,,, ,,208 volts from the red/high leg to Neutral buttttt ttt thats NOT one of the voltages n sources for use..... its the High or Red leg

D) If the service was in reality ONLY Single Phase and a 120/240 volt single phase 3 wire system (like normal household) there would be 240 volts Line to Line but only 120 from either Line to Neutral..... ...

ONCE YOU FIGURE OUT WHATS REALLY INSIDE THAT FUZE BOX

If it were a straight 240 volt 3 phase 3 wire floating delta, the 3 240 volt phase wires would wire to the 3 input welder wires.

If it were a 208 Y 120 volt 3 phase 4 wire grounded Y system, the 3 phase wires connect to the welder and an equipment grounding conductor (EGC) gets connected to the welders outer metallic case/frame.

If it were a 120/240 volt 3 phase 4 wire grounded center tapped Delta red/high leg system, the 3 phase wires connect to the 3 phase welder inputs while the EGC again connects to the welders frame/case.

NOTE if you end up with a plug n receptace it, of course, has to be the proper voltage n current rating plus sufficient poles for all the phase conductors plus the EGC

FIND OUT WHAT SERVICE YOU HAVE !!!!! !!!!

John T

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Bob

09-24-2007 21:26:20




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 Re: Wiring 3 phase welder in reply to Mark-Mi, 09-24-2007 19:31:38  
There's several versions of "3-phase", "wye" or "delta", for, starters.

Suggest you post more information as to the service you have, and the welder you have, or else hire a "pro", before you hurt yourself, or the welder.



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