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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Reclaiming a shovel from fire

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550Doug

11-06-2007 07:19:07




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I had a shovel go through a fire and now I'd like to re-harden it and put in new handle. How do I do it (if I can)? It was a black steel regular type v-shaped shovel (or spade to some).




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x22

11-07-2007 06:48:33




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 Re: Reclaiming a shovel from fire in reply to 550Doug, 11-06-2007 07:19:07  
If it is made of high carbon oil-hardening steel, you may want to try to heat it up red and quench the digging end. File a spot near the edge quickly and watch as the metal at the edge changes color from the residual heat being transferred from the other end. It should turn light yellow to straw, dark yellow orange and then into the blue range.As the color changes from light to dark, the cutting edge gets softer and less brittle.When you see the filed area turn dark yellow, quench the whole shovel head in oil until cool.

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Tradititonal Farmer

11-07-2007 03:16:21




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 Re: Reclaiming a shovel from fire in reply to 550Doug, 11-06-2007 07:19:07  
Where do you live I have a bunch of good shovels that I have bought for next to nothing at auctions you can have one free.Once the temper is gone you're not going to get it back



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RobMD

11-06-2007 12:01:51




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 Re: Reclaiming a shovel from fire in reply to 550Doug, 11-06-2007 07:19:07  
I don't know why anyone would want to do that. Wayyyyy before the time you got this fixed, you could have gone to a true value and bought yourself a new one.



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matthies

11-06-2007 19:13:18




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 Re: Reclaiming a shovel from fire in reply to RobMD, 11-06-2007 12:01:51  
If you'd use a spade like some of us do, the new ones are junk and aren't even close. That being said I'm a grave digger and know how and what I'm doing. Third generation digger and proud of it, no backhoe here. My cousin and myself went 6 foot deep in an hour and a half with another guy just running the loader to haul away. Don't have enough business to justify a backhoe and it keeps us in shape. My step father never believed that I dug them by hand until he seen how my spade shines from use. We're in our 30's and our fathers dug into their 50 and 60's, they were farmers that never own a skidloader. chris

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RobMD

11-07-2007 15:16:31




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 Re: Reclaiming a shovel from fire in reply to matthies, 11-06-2007 19:13:18  
Yes I know and understand that shovels today are crappy, but his burnt shovel is even crappier now.



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Stan in Oly, WA

11-06-2007 09:31:39




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 Re: Reclaiming a shovel from fire in reply to 550Doug, 11-06-2007 07:19:07  
Hi Doug,

On Page 2 of this forum (as I type this) is the topic Combination Wrenches from 10/31/07. In about the sixth reply from the top T_Bone describes the procedure for heat treating mild steel.

I'd certainly spend a little time with the burned up spade just to learn something. In the past few years I've noticed that replacement handles cost more than cheap spades, though, so I'd put some kind of makeshift handle on it to do any testing.

One thing I feel fairly certain about is that with the price of even a reasonably good spade being what it is, you won't be able to justify any restoration efforts economically unless you value your own time at next to nothing. OTOH, not everything can, or should, be measured in dollars.

If you decide to do anything with it, let me know what you learn.

All the best, Stan

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Allan In NE

11-06-2007 08:17:36




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 Re: Reclaiming a shovel from fire in reply to 550Doug, 11-06-2007 07:19:07  
Doug,

Throw it away and go buy a new spade. It will never be right again.

Kinda like a log chain that has seen the same treatment. :>(

Allan



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glr62

11-06-2007 17:28:16




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 Re: Reclaiming a shovel from fire in reply to Allan In NE, 11-06-2007 08:17:36  
for someone with sentimental value of restoring a combine I can't believe you!! I can't seem to get rid of an old steel scoop shovel that is at least 60 years old and still use it to shovel snow!!



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Ken Macfarlane

11-07-2007 05:09:55




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 Re: Reclaiming a shovel from fire in reply to glr62, 11-06-2007 17:28:16  
You can't heat treat mild steel. It was cold rolled to get its hardness. Once annealed by fire you have to cold work it again to get the hardness back.

Even if it was a good higher carbon steel, you will only get a bit of the hardness back by heating and quenching in water.



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Don-Wi

11-09-2007 00:46:04




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 Re: Reclaiming a shovel from fire in reply to Ken Macfarlane, 11-07-2007 05:09:55  
Not true. Cold rolled can be heat treated just the same as hot rolled. Only cold rolled has more internal stresses and will spring a whole lot quicker, in most cases.

If it were a higher carbon steel, it'll get quite and and possibly too brittle if quenched in water. For high carbon and tool steels, use oil. Some even have to use air (A-2 Tool steel for example) Can't weld on it and then expect to machine it- it just ain't gonna happen. PITA to work with, as it can't get warm at all. Work hardens too.

Donovan from Wisconsin

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Stan in Oly, WA

11-07-2007 09:31:07




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 Re: Reclaiming a shovel from fire in reply to Ken Macfarlane, 11-07-2007 05:09:55  
Hi Ken,

If what you say here is right then what T_Bone had to say in the posting I cited earlier in this thread would have to be wrong. To find out, I Googled "Heat treating mild steel." In the Wikipedia entry for carbon steel (aka mild steel---I made sure) 9 different processes are described under the heading "Heat Treatment", and that doesn't include those separately listed under "Case Hardening."

All the best, Stan

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