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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

shop air lines

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8n/9n

01-30-2008 16:32:15




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Hello, I am plannig on installing an air line around the shop to the different bays and to the benches I was wondering what size line and what type of line to use to make this system work correctly and without spending to much money. I would just like tips on what others have dibe and their suggestions. Thank you. Ben




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Mike M

01-31-2008 12:50:26




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 Re: shop air lines in reply to 8n/9n, 01-30-2008 16:32:15  
WITHOUT SPENDING MUCH MONEY ? Then do what I did buy some air hoses and ran them up and over the rafters into the other part of the shop. You can also check into Truck air brake line. You just use compression fittings with line inserts to hook it up. Works on air,fuel and water.



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old timer in ohio

01-31-2008 08:16:56




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 Re: shop air lines in reply to 8n/9n, 01-30-2008 16:32:15  
Hey there Ben;
I think you should go with 3/4"mains
and 1/2"drops,black iron.Galv might
add some flaking problems,water traps,
are a deffinate(?spelling) plus. Bob
God Bless



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cj3b_jeep

01-31-2008 07:11:01




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 Re: shop air lines in reply to 8n/9n, 01-30-2008 16:32:15  
I just did my garage with 1/2" black pipe. I'd read about other stuff, brother in law encouraged the use of PVC. I would not like to have the PVC blow up in my face, so I went with the black pipe. Cost was about $160 and I have my own Ridgid threader and a nice cutter that I bought at auctions. I have 6 outlets, with water traps at each.



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David - OR

01-31-2008 06:34:23




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 Re: shop air lines in reply to 8n/9n, 01-30-2008 16:32:15  
One of the best discussions and formulas that I have seen for designing compressed air piping may be found in the link below.

Basically, you are aiming for an air velocity below 20 feet per second in the main header, and 30 feet per second in drops.

If the price of copper and hassle of steel causes you to seek a plastic alternative, one options is Pex-AL-Pex. This is a sandwich of cross linked polyethylene and aluminum. It is commonly used for radiant heat. The (offshore) manufacturers suggest its use in compressed air service, although I don't know the status of regulatory approval in this country (OSHA).

From an engineering materials point of view, cross-linked polyethylene has a high energy of fracture. As with steel or copper, it will fail by splitting, rather than shattering like PVC. (PVC has a low energy of fracture -- it is brittle like glass or eggshells). I personally feel comfortable using Pex-Al-Pex in a farm shop environment, but would not even consider PVC. With employees I'd be constrained by OSHA regardless of the physics.

All plastic materials are inferior to metal in terms of effectively cooling compressed air and condensing out moisture. Rubber or vinyl air hoses tacked up on the wall are the worst of all from this aspect. (The thermal conductance of copper is 1000 times higher than plastic, a fact which the copper tube institute is happy to trumpet in their literature)

The actual practical difference in heat transfer between metal and thin-wall plastic is not that bad, due to the "skin effect". In order to transfer heat from compressed air to the surrounding atmosphere, you must first transfer it from the compressed air to the inner pipe wall, thence through the metal pipe, thense from the outer pipe wall to the surrounding air. The total thermal resistance is the sum of these 3 effects. So even though the copper itself is very conductive, the overall system effect is only about twice as good as Pex or Pex-Al-Pex tubing. (This is why Pex is used in radiant floors). PVC and ABS are thicker wall and lower thermal conductivity and I believe end up about 1/4 that of copper. Truck brake hoses are worse yet, and reinforced vinyl or rubber air hoses truly terrible.

You can compensate for the degraded cooling in the header by using a longer length (to the first drop) or higher diameter or both. Alternatively, the first 50 feet could be run in copper or steel.

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500sks

01-31-2008 05:06:28




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 Re: shop air lines in reply to 8n/9n, 01-30-2008 16:32:15  
I just bought 1/2" and 3/4" type L copper pipe yesterday for the same pupose. My buddy has a commercial shop and has 1" and 3/4" in his shop. He needs the bigger sizes for running 1" impacts I will never need that much air. I will put a drain on every drop. Look at copper its easy to work with easy to modify but the price is not cheap. Good luck.



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circus

01-31-2008 02:33:29




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 Re: shop air lines in reply to 8n/9n, 01-30-2008 16:32:15  
What ever material you use, make it large enough and long enough to cool the air and lower air speed. Design it so condensed water drains back to the compressor or forward to an water trap. Your tools and paint jobs will thank you.



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Tim in OR

01-30-2008 20:51:01




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 Re: shop air lines in reply to 8n/9n, 01-30-2008 16:32:15  
A friend picked a bunch of plastic line like they use on the big rigs for air line at an auction. He used the 5/8" and 1/2". It was easy, and it works real well.
Tim in OR



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huntingreen

01-30-2008 20:37:33




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 Re: shop air lines in reply to 8n/9n, 01-30-2008 16:32:15  
i just done mine in 3/4 and 1/2 inch black pipe. 168 ft of air line. my total cost was probably $ 350. i have my own pipe threader so that helped a lot.



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Bud in WV

01-30-2008 17:09:58




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 Re: shop air lines in reply to 8n/9n, 01-30-2008 16:32:15  
I did a "cheap & dirty" in the shop I had in NC. I found a local sprinkler company that had some scrap - 2" sch 10 pipe. It even had some 1/2" "Weldolets" already installed. I got some more from them to weld on where I needed them along with tees & elbows. I just plugged the extras with a 1/2" NPT plugs. I open-butt welded it out with E7018s. In 6 years or so I never had any problems with it at 100 psi and the larger diameter acts as a reserviour to reduce the load on your compressor.

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Gary from Muleshoe

01-30-2008 17:03:02




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 Re: shop air lines in reply to 8n/9n, 01-30-2008 16:32:15  
Is PVC a bad idea for this? Just thinking it would not have the problem of galvanized, and it is cheaper than black pipe.



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Bud in WV

01-30-2008 17:13:31




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 Re: shop air lines in reply to Gary from Muleshoe, 01-30-2008 17:03:02  
PVC is bad - it gets brittle with age and can cause serious injury if it blows out. Do a search on this site - this subject has been discussed in length by guys much more qualified than me.



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ILikeCase

01-30-2008 19:56:17




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 Re: shop air lines in reply to Bud in WV, 01-30-2008 17:13:31  
I wouldn't go so far as to say it is right and know a lot of people call it Taboo. But I have PVC airlines in my shop. It was cheap and easy to install and I have had no problems with it. It is mostly conceled (behind sheetrock) so it shouldn't get damaged and will be contained if it blows.



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Charles (in GA)

01-31-2008 03:36:36




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 Re: shop air lines in reply to ILikeCase, 01-30-2008 19:56:17  
Without trying to start one of those long, never ending anti-pvc threads, people call it taboo because OSHA will cite businesses found to be using it. They issued a letter in about 1989 to that effect, widely found on the internet. Do some Google searches, lots of info turns up.

Nibco produces a ABS based pipe called ChemAire that is designed expressly for Compressed air and approved for such (ABS doesn't shatter like PVC, it merely splits, more like copper or the like)

Charles

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RobMD

01-30-2008 17:00:18




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 Re: shop air lines in reply to 8n/9n, 01-30-2008 16:32:15  
Black iron is the best.. galvanized pipe gets little chips of galvanize into air tools.. not exactly a good idea. :)



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markiz41

01-31-2008 08:58:22




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 Re: shop air lines in reply to RobMD, 01-30-2008 17:00:18  
Not a big deal, Rob. I ran some galvanized, some black. I see more reddish rust in my filter bowl from the black pipe, than I do zinc specs. Never saw any big flakes.



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Arkandan

01-31-2008 07:26:40




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 Re: shop air lines in reply to RobMD, 01-30-2008 17:00:18  
There was a thread on here a week or two back where someone had a question about piping for LP or natural gas. T-Bone had a reply saying "galvanized pipe was now authorized for use with LP and natural gas", since around 1999, I think. I appologize if that is a misquote, but I'm sure that is what I read. In that case wouldn't it be safe for air then also? Can't remember what he said they did to make it okay, but thinking it would have to be something to do with flaking.

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jhill52

01-30-2008 16:53:36




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 Re: shop air lines in reply to 8n/9n, 01-30-2008 16:32:15  
L just finished doing that to my shop . The rule of thumb I foumd on the TP sandblaster website was 1/2 in line up to 75 ft 3/4 inch line after that. I used black iron pipe. I got it wholesale at $10.00 / 10 ft length.

Jerry



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