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Tire Bead Seating and kids

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Ryan - WI

02-23-2008 13:14:06




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This semester I am restarting the auto program in my school and I am going to need to get something to assist in seating tire beads. The tire changer we have has a bead blast built in which is nice, but some of the kids want to mount some tires with pretty solid sidewalls. I am going to need to get something to help with this. As I see it I have two real choices, an air blast system like a Cheetah or a pneumatic innertube type bead expander. I was leaning toward to innertube due to the safety aspect and wanted the opinion of other educated individuals as to what they would do. Since I couldn't find any other educated individuals, I thought I would ask you guys. :wink:

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TxFarmallFan

02-28-2008 15:07:59




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 Re: Tire Bead Seating and kids in reply to Ryan - WI, 02-23-2008 13:14:06  
They use the Cheetah at the dealer I work for. Works good on all sizes, even on 19.5's.



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Ryan - WI

02-24-2008 17:58:10




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 Re: Tire Bead Seating and kids in reply to TominKy, 02-23-2008 13:14:06  

jose bagge said: (quoted from post at 08:27:30 02/24/08)
The problem with modern "rim clamp" tire equipment is it just flat out doesn't have the air storage capacity- that upright tube that holds the dismount duckbill is actually the air tank too. A good ol' centerpost machine (coats 40-50A, etc) will seat just about any tire.



Gonna have to disagree with the reservoir on a rim clamp. See the pic of our changer. The reservoir is plenty large and has 125psi in it.
Link

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JT

02-24-2008 10:01:53




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 Re: Tire Bead Seating and kids in reply to Ryan - WI, 02-23-2008 13:14:06  
What I use to mount tires is a thick, gooey, soap type stuff. We seat one side of the tire, turn tire over, fill gap with this soap stuff, then start airing slowly. as if fills with air, it pushes soap stuff out, put back in bucket, and use it again. The advantage is it also lubricates the tire, it goes on rim easier. learned this way of doing it watching local tire shop put floaters rim for big fertilizer spreaders. A LOT safer and cheaper than all the "tire mounting" gimmicks on the market. If you wanna email me, I will look at the brand of it and let you know. This stuff is really thick and gooey, it will not blowout unless you do not put enough between rim and tire or try to put air in too fast.
Jim

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jose bagge

02-24-2008 05:27:30




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 Re: Tire Bead Seating and kids in reply to Ryan - WI, 02-23-2008 13:14:06  
Hate to sound like an ad for these guys, but Meyers Tire supply has all of this stuff.

The Cheetah works well, particularly for large sidewall truck tires. The big O rings work well on 50, 45 and 40 aspect ratio stuff where the sidewall is much stiffer- you lube these up and push them between the bead of the tire and the weight flange on the wheel, and as the tire inflates it gets squeezed out. Commonly, when tires are stacked they compress and you need to "pinch" them to spread them to match rim width- this is what the "tubes" that were inflated outside the tire diameter were for. You can duplicate this with a 2" ratchet strap for a whole lot less money- just wrap around the circumference and tighten.
The problem with modern "rim clamp" tire equipment is it just flat out doesn't have the air storage capacity- that upright tube that holds the dismount duckbill is actually the air tank too. A good ol' centerpost machine (coats 40-50A, etc) will seat just about any tire.

I, too, used to "blast" 48" Mudders seated with a can of starting fluid. Impressive as hell, but not something I'd want to teach students!

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lucas boy

02-24-2008 04:15:04




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 Re: Tire Bead Seating and kids in reply to Ryan - WI, 02-23-2008 13:14:06  
i think having both is good. a freind used ether sprayed inside and light.the explosion seats the bead... but that scares me so only in emergency... i remember one day in auto shop a guy was putting on a tire to the rim and it blew off when he aired it up. he had his hand laying on it when it blew. his hand flew up and hit him in the head knocking him down.scared the shite out of everyone. lucas

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Ryan - WI

02-23-2008 20:29:50




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 Re: Tire Bead Seating and kids in reply to Ryan - WI, 02-23-2008 13:14:06  
Glennster,

I figured that was the type you were talking about. The problem with that is that I can only seem to find those in truck size rims. Most of the tires the kids will be mounting that would need it are going to be 15, 16 and 17" rims.



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jose bagge

02-24-2008 05:29:36




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 Re: Tire Bead Seating and kids in reply to Ryan - WI, 02-23-2008 20:29:50  
Use a ratchet strap for this...as wide a strap as possible, 4" if you can get it



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Bob Huntress

02-23-2008 21:02:18




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 Re: Tire Bead Seating and kids in reply to Ryan - WI, 02-23-2008 20:29:50  
The bead seater that we used when I worked nights in Virginia, was an inflatable strap type belt that had a D-ring type buckle. I would cinch it down on the tire, around the bead, and secure it with the D ring buckle. Then I would apply air until the bead sat into place. My point is that this was adjustable. There were a few times that the bead would not seat, but that only happaned maybe twice, and yes we would use ether, if it got to that point. The correct method for dealing with this is to use to place two of these straps next to each other, I believe.

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Slowpoke

03-03-2008 00:14:44




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 Re: Tire Bead Seating and kids in reply to Bob Huntress, 02-23-2008 21:02:18  
I have the exact same inflatable cloth covered tube with the D ring. I'm lucky if it works 25% of the time. I've also tried the straps which just squash the tire in where the ratchet is sitting. Most of my tires are 14 & 15" 75s and the older they are the harder they are to remove and then seat by hand.



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Bob Huntress

02-23-2008 20:10:01




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 Re: Tire Bead Seating and kids in reply to Ryan - WI, 02-23-2008 13:14:06  
While I'm sure that many farm equipment shops still use ether, I doubt that you want to teach your students to. I use a heavy rope, or tow strap, but many tool companies make an inflatable strap that expands as air is applied pushing the tread inward, and the walls outward.



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Gordon in IN

02-23-2008 19:53:28




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 Re: Tire Bead Seating and kids in reply to Ryan - WI, 02-23-2008 13:14:06  
I have been told that the strap devices that fit around the tread should not be used on any radial tires and are not recommended for belted tires. They did work very well for bias ply tires. For radial or belted the simplest and I think the best is a simple large rubber "O" ring that fits over the wheel rim. When the tire is inflated, it is forced off of the wheel rim. Good luck



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PJH

02-23-2008 19:15:35




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 Re: Tire Bead Seating and kids in reply to Ryan - WI, 02-23-2008 13:14:06  
When I was a kid, I worked in a gas station and we used one of the expanders like the red one that you referred to. It worked real good, although it flew off once and wrapped around the bosses neck. Make sure you center it on the tire - he was distracted and not watching what he was doing. Didn't hurt him, but it sure was funny.



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Wisconsin Bill

02-23-2008 17:48:59




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 Re: Tire Bead Seating and kids in reply to Ryan - WI, 02-23-2008 13:14:06  
I mounted many 60 and 70 series tires at my dad's service station back in the 60's. We had a metal strap bead expander with a hand-cranked screw mechanism that acted much like a hose clamp. Needed to use a lot of soap solution on some of those wide-ovals. It sometimes took a lot of cranking-tires back then really had sidewalls, not like the single-ply ones today. And as the tire filled I had to really spin it loose fast to keep filling the tire with air. Course I was on production with dad watching nearby. I would think a 3-inch ratchet strap with a 'cheater bar' would provide enough squish? It is great news to hear your school added auto mechanics back. Our local schools dropped those courses years ago-they went with computer screens to watch!; allowed some of us locals to get some good equipment for our home shops.

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glennster

02-23-2008 17:25:36




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 Re: Tire Bead Seating and kids in reply to Ryan - WI, 02-23-2008 13:14:06  
ryan, this is the one i was refering to. it slides over the rim, and takes up the space between the tire and the rim. you slowly inflate the tire and it rolls itself out of the bead area and when the bead seats, this pops off.



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Ryan - WI

02-23-2008 17:03:07




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 Re: Tire Bead Seating and kids in reply to Ryan - WI, 02-23-2008 13:14:06  
Thanks for the suggestions so far guys.

We already discussed the ether trick. I explained why it worked and how dangerous it was. Then I showed them a Youtube video of some guys trying to reseat a tire after going mudding that exploded and caught the truck on fire. Hopefully that scared them all away from that idea.

So far I have used the ratchet strap method, but a kid mounted some 60 series wide tires for the rears of his camaro last week and it took two ratchet straps (couldn't get them tight enough) and it was still a pita.

I am actually thinking of a different innertube type than glennster suggested. This type goes around the outerside like a ratchet strap and then when it inflates squeezes the whole tire which is much more uniform than the ratchet strap method which only squeezes at the ratchet. This is the type I mean:
Link

I know I could teach them lots of tricks and methods to do it which aren't exactly proper. The point is to get a tool that is designed for the job and can be used in a safe manner. No sense in emphasizing safety and using proper tools and then seating a bead with ether or a ratchet strap.

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1936

02-23-2008 15:32:38




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 Re: Tire Bead Seating and kids in reply to Ryan - WI, 02-23-2008 13:14:06  
Try anti freeze----- --works



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rockyhawaii

02-23-2008 14:44:06




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 Re: Tire Bead Seating and kids in reply to Ryan - WI, 02-23-2008 13:14:06  
The "Starter Fluid System," LOL. Also called the "Singed Eyebrows System." If you're talking about those low-profile ghetto tires you'd better have a powerful air system. Those tires have very little flex to them and will sometimes fly off the tire machine while mounting, possibly damaging the rim or tire.



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glennster

02-23-2008 14:31:42




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 Re: Tire Bead Seating and kids in reply to Ryan - WI, 02-23-2008 13:14:06  
with the kids i would go with the inner tube type. the cheetah and the ether work great, but with the kids if they get the fingers in the way when the bead pops, theres gonna be fingers inside the tire. we had the inner tube type and it worked good, put in on, add some air to fill the gap between the rim and tire, then inflate the tire, it would roll the tube right out and let the bead seat. a lot safer.

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Dave Sherburne NY

02-23-2008 13:52:56




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 Re: Tire Bead Seating and kids in reply to Ryan - WI, 02-23-2008 13:14:06  
I usually wrap a 1" load strap around the tire and
crank it up tight It works fine.



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bellyacre

02-23-2008 13:51:25




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 Re: Tire Bead Seating and kids in reply to Ryan - WI, 02-23-2008 13:14:06  
By the end of the semester every kid in that class will have heard of the fast and effective starting fluid system. It might be your responsibility to teach them how to do this safely. You may want to post disclaimers on the shop door, the main entrance door and the local newspaper.



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JD9295

02-23-2008 14:30:07




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 Re: Tire Bead Seating and kids in reply to bellyacre, 02-23-2008 13:51:25  
thats what i was thinking to belly



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