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solar collectors..plans , Web links?

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s.crum

02-28-2008 05:31:28




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I'm thinking of building a few solar collector panels the collect and circulate warm air into the house during the day. Thinking about something inexpensive to build and maintain.
Any websites you've visited that have ideas? Thanks




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circus

03-01-2008 07:18:00




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 modified lower vent in reply to s.crum, 02-28-2008 05:31:28  
I've sketched the modifications made to the lower vent of the space heater



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Gerald J.

02-29-2008 08:49:43




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 Re: solar collectors..plans , Web links? in reply to s.crum, 02-28-2008 05:31:28  
Active collectors catch sun. Even on days when you need no heat. Then they overheat.

Passive solar (lots of south facing windows) catches lots of sun. Even on days when you need no heat. Then the living space overheats. You have to add lots of heat storage for lots of windows, then on days when you need lots of heat, it all goes to storage and you never warm up.

A couple centuries ago, Thomas Jefferson experimntally worked out that for conventional construction, south facing windows no more than 15% of the floor area was a reasonable compromise between not enough and too much solar into the home.

Going with TJ's limit on windows, insulation pays off much better than active or excess active solar. Been there, tried that the active bit. Putting the solar panel money into insulation, tight walls, and good windows would have paid back far sooner.

Gerald J.

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dave2

02-29-2008 06:51:51




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 Re: solar collectors..plans , Web links? in reply to s.crum, 02-28-2008 05:31:28  
what about black PVC? Remember jumping into that black seated pickup without a shirt on a sunny day?



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dave2

02-29-2008 02:43:07




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 Re: solar collectors..plans , Web links? in reply to s.crum, 02-28-2008 05:31:28  
Link

This looks interesting..... ..

Dave



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T_Bone

02-28-2008 12:28:35




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 Re: solar collectors..plans , Web links? in reply to s.crum, 02-28-2008 05:31:28  
Hi s.crum,
You might want to consider using a liquid to liquid air exchanger as the efficiency is alot higher. Even if you go with a 50/50 anti-freeze (keeping the collector from freezing) mix for heat transfer, you yield many more BTU's than a 100% air collector design.

Another consideration on a closed collector air systems, is when the air passes thru the dew point inside the collector then it will condensate thus will form a bacteria really easy that will be transfered to the living area. This is not good and can be deadly.

Air collectors for heating or cooling work really well when there design is such that alot of fresh excess air is moved across the heat transfer medium. This keeps the bacteria low. Alot of the Arab country's used this type of collector for many hundreds of years and it works well but requires alot of space for proper design.

A solar liquid to liquid exchanger will produce 180º water at 60º ambient is really a efficient heat transfer method. Add a storage tank and you can have free heat 24/7. This method also works at lower ambiment temps than I stated but I was giving an example off the top of my head spec's on past working systems.

T_Bone

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circus

02-28-2008 14:59:18




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 Re: solar collectors..plans , Web links? in reply to T_Bone, 02-28-2008 12:28:35  
Hi T_Bone I'm researching a liquid collector too replace a LP water heater. If properly designed and installed solar air heaters are just as efficient and clean. Once installed you do nothing ever. When cool, reverse convection seals then to avoid heat loss and condensation. Besides there's nothing in there for mold to feed on. Thermal windows experienced 10 fold more condensation. Materials costs about $100 for a 4'x 8' panel. Insulated greenhouse glazing, sheet of 26ga., paint, steel studs for framing, insulation, weather stripping, ducts and a garbage bag. That's everything. No tanks, pumps, plumbing, multiple heat exchangers, valves, evacuated tubes, antifreeze, PVs, electricity, bleeders, gauges, thermostats, water heating panels, expansion tanks, weight, etc. I do wish it could store heat. Well, 12 hours of free heat is better than none.

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T_Bone

02-29-2008 02:07:30




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 Re: solar collectors..plans , Web links? in reply to circus, 02-28-2008 14:59:18  
Hi Circus,

Using your website example so what are your plans to deal with 115º air at the ceiling area for 4hrs/day? What's it going to feel like when you stand up from sitting in a chair when all that heat hits you? How's the wife going to like doing housework sweating? What happens when summer rolls around and it's now at 170º or 180º in that wall area?

I'm not trying to be a a$$hole but just asking about some design considerations.

Air is a wonderful fluid to work with but boy does it create some design work. Can the above concerns be controlled with a $100 bill install? Not in my life time.

Mold and bacteria is a major concern with homes being built as tight as they are in areas of high humidity. Be very careful here no matter what system you use in any area.

You'd think the dry areas are easier to deal with like AZ, but we have a bug that lives in the soil that will make you think you died when your still breathing and only wishing to die, called Valley Fever. Try not removing the dust in a solar air collector and see what the results are.

For a $1000 you can have a solar hydronic/air heating system that's climate controlled 24/7. It all depends on how big of storage tank and collector pannel you have depends on how long you can heat with it.

Add another tank and a few pipes to the above system and you now have cooling available. Can your air only system do that?

T_Bone

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circus

02-29-2008 06:41:01




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 Re: solar collectors..plans , Web links? in reply to T_Bone, 02-29-2008 02:07:30  
T_Bone I'm sold on solar water heat. Just needed convincing it worked prior to the substantial outlay of money, time, tweaking and maintenance. Have you ever experimented with alternatives for copper tubing?



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T_Bone

02-29-2008 12:06:45




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 Re: solar collectors..plans , Web links? in reply to circus, 02-29-2008 06:41:01  
Hi circus,

For what little cost difference there is on a collector pannel, I like CU. Black poly pipe would be another choice.

What you might consider doing is building a small collector, maybe 2ft x 4ft, and use that for testing your designs. This would also tell you how much collector area would be required for your location.

The best collectors I've seen use 2"x4" frame rails, a solid back board then insulated with 1/2" rigid fiberglass (sides too), then collector piping, then cover glass or twin polycarbonate. Cold in at the bottom, hot out at the top.

I would never install a hydronic solar collector on the roof unless space was at a premium.

A basic electronic differential controller costs about $150. As the name says, it comparres A with B(sensors) and when the set point difference(usually 5º) is met then controlls a operator(pump relay).

You can use a heat pipe, (a pipe that contains refrigerant), with a hydraulic cylinder(s) to automaticaly track the sun thus dramaticly increasing your solar collector output ability thus requiring less collector area.

T_Bone

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circus

02-29-2008 04:25:48




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 Re: solar collectors..plans , Web links? in reply to T_Bone, 02-29-2008 02:07:30  
You're concerns have me dumbfounded, just doesn't happen. It's just a large south facing window with a roof overhang and no heat loss. Consider the dangers and costs of the heat sources it supplements. I do remember questioning my intelligence "why didn't I do this 20 years ago?"



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T_Bone

02-29-2008 11:27:51




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 Re: solar collectors..plans , Web links? in reply to circus, 02-29-2008 04:25:48  
Hi circus,

Your missing my point of solar air systems. There great and can be a good asset "if" the design is correct for that area.

Solar air has more engineering concerns for a given design to preform correct too human comfort when comparred to a solar hydronic system.

T_Bone



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TimV

02-28-2008 09:03:35




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 Re: solar collectors..plans , Web links? in reply to s.crum, 02-28-2008 05:31:28  
builditsolar.com has tons upon tons of practical plans, tools, trials, etc. for this sort of thing. I built a similar unit to the one below last fall using a discarded window from my parent's house--approximately 8' x 3'. Works very well--I can get enough heat to keep the 10' x 14' addition I put it on warm without external heat, and with the thermal mass of the room (it houses my homemade hot tub) I only need to crack the door to the rest of the house if it's below zero. I do not have a fan on the unit, but plan on adding one. Temperatures at the outlet will go off the scale of a cheap 120-degree thermometer. I was happy enough with this one that I'm planning on building some more next spring, as I have quite a bit of south-facing wall available yet.

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Gerald J.

02-28-2008 08:28:29




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 Re: solar collectors..plans , Web links? in reply to s.crum, 02-28-2008 05:31:28  
In 1974, I built a tilted 2x4 wall. Filled it with insulation. put a front cover on it, then a 1x8 box around it. I put used galvanized corrigated tin (second try) on spacers to make an air space behind the tin. I painted the tin with Krylon ultra flat black. It was a better solar absorber than the fancy paints made for the purpose. I hooked it to the basement blower box with 8" insulated pipes. I put two layers of clear vinyl over the front with a lattice of nylon rope to hold it down (lots of air pressure tending to blow it off). With a panel 24 x 8, I believe I got 100,000 btu per sunny day. Displaced maybe 1.5 gallons of LP, but had I put that much effort into good windows and insulation, I'd have saved several times as much LP.

The tilted wall gathered water and rotted. it would have been better as a vertical wall depending on snow or a ground reflector (foil faced foam) to enhance the solar gathering.

Iowa State extension did publish a set off drawings, whether they still have them, I don't know.

Gerald J.

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jdemaris

02-28-2008 06:05:02




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 Re: solar collectors..plans , Web links? in reply to s.crum, 02-28-2008 05:31:28  
Mother Earth magazine has some good, free articles with plans on just what you're talking about.



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circus

02-28-2008 05:56:02




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 Re: solar collectors..plans , Web links? in reply to s.crum, 02-28-2008 05:31:28  
Built this last fall with some improvements. Well so many improvements it's a different design all together but the principle's the same. If interested I can take some photos.



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s.crum

02-28-2008 06:34:25




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 Re: solar collectors..plans , Web links? in reply to circus, 02-28-2008 05:56:02  
Excellent!!! This is the type of information I'm looking for! THANK YOU



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