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1 ton rear gear ratio

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macco

03-25-2008 19:56:27

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I don't want to bore you readers since I asked a few questions a few days ago on this subject but I ordered a new 3500 4 door dually today and was told only gear ratio choose was 3.73 (GMC dumax/allison was my choose). I wanted 4.10 but that wasn't even a option with the dissel,(it was available with the 6 liter gas). My question- is the 3.73 a good choice for a truck bought for a lot of towing?

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HeyPigFarmer

03-27-2008 17:21:33

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Re: 1 ton rear gear ratio in reply to macco, 03-25-2008 19:56:27

Forgot a word in there too. The ZF has the .72 OD, the New dual overdrive 6 speed Allison has the .61 OD in it.

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HeyPigFarmer

03-27-2008 14:45:03

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Re: 1 ton rear gear ratio in reply to macco, 03-25-2008 19:56:27

Sorry, change that $4800 to $1800. The numbers on the keyboard are a little close I guess. That was 3 years ago, so I'm sure they have come down since then for the 5 speed autos.

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HeyPigFarmer

03-27-2008 14:29:02

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Re: 1 ton rear gear ratio in reply to macco, 03-25-2008 19:56:27

The new automatics are a lot stronger and more efficient than automatics of years gone by but they are still less efficient to operate than a manual because of the pressure pump inside and the torque converter. The reason a lot of newer automatics get better mileage than a manual is because the overdrive in a lot of them is taller than the manual. Compare the .72 overdrive (in OD you would run 72% of the RPM of direct) in the ZF6 - 6 speed manual GM used compared to the new .61 overdrive that is used. Not that hard to figure out why the auto gets better mileage. 11% less RPM at the same speed.
Now when you take off the manual has a "Low gear" (I call it 1st) reduction of 5.79, where the Allison has a 1st ratio of 3.10. But then you have the torque converter in there to slip, create heat, and burn out to get the same crawl speed of the manual. But if you are only using it as a pavement pounder and aren't trying to get 300 bushel of corn out of a spongy field with a gravity box, it won't make two bits of difference to you.
Now for pulling in OD, the ZF6 is used in medium duty trucks and is rated for 720 lb-ft of torque. So if you have a Freightliner FL60 are you going to drive around in 5th gear all the time, nope, that's what 6th is there for, better mileage. If it does it all day in a medium duty truck, it should be able to handle life in a light duty truck.
One big downfall of the Allison 1000 series, which doesn't effect many people but could still be an issue, is that it is constantly "learning" and adjusting to how you drive. So if you drive in town a lot it will shift slower and smoother so you don't notice the shift as much, and right fully can get away with it because you are not transmitting as much power. But go straight from city driving p***y footing it to merging on the highway and kick it down hard and you can smoke the clutches out of it. Buyer beware.
Plus the just the rebuild kit alone for an Allison 1000, last time we bought one was $4800, any of the newer manual transmissions you can buy a reman complete for 1800-2500 and you don't have to do any of the nasty inside work.
Auto's are nice for people that don't want to shift. I prefer to control when it shifts. But that's why they used to make both. If you get a GM you can only get the automatic so if you are talking GM it's a waste of breath to argue.
So there is my two cents worth. Buy whatever you want it's your money.

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T_Bone

03-27-2008 15:46:01

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Re: 1 ton rear gear ratio in reply to HeyPigFarmer, 03-27-2008 14:29:02

Hey PF,

Are you sure about the OD gear at .61 in a ZF-6?

Sure would hate to put a bunch of time into trying to buy a .61 gear for my ZF6 if'n you was wrong :<)

That would be just about right for my 7.3 PSD and save a ton of fuel.

T_Bone

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CRUSADER

03-27-2008 05:54:11

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Re: 1 ton rear gear ratio in reply to macco, 03-25-2008 19:56:27

Reading this thread I've found some interesting posts. The 3.73 should pull your load just fine. I must admit that it's been awhile since I've worked a pickup, but hope to work the one I have now...it's my retirement vehicle. In Oct 06, when I returned from Korea I bought an 07 GMC 2500 HD. It's a lot more than I wanted, but also had to keep the boss lady happy. I've got the Duramax/Allison combo and it is nice. Would have prefered a standard shift, but for those few times that she needs or feel she needs to drive it...then the automatic is necessary. Not meaning to shoot any jabs at anyone, but I never thought of myself as an urbanite and it must be that I am turning into one. Hope you have good luck with your new pickup purchase and it serves you well. Keep in mind, a lot of your older cars still get decent fuel mileage. I also have a 92 Corsica to drive that averages 28 to 30 mpg on the highway. It's in need of some TLC right now, but will be "buying it back" for the parts needed to fix it soon.

Jim

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T_Bone

03-26-2008 18:26:43

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Re: 1 ton rear gear ratio in reply to macco, 03-25-2008 19:56:27

Hi marrco,

It wouldn't have made alot of difference had you got the 4:10 ratio as with any type of load weight on any serrious grade you would be pulling in 1:1 ratio or approx effective 4:33 ratio.

You can not pull any serrious grade either with a automatic or a manual while being in OD. There's just not enough torque while in OD. That's means you would need to shift down and use a 1:1 transmission ratio.

With a 3:73 ratio, when you can use OD, then you yield more fuel mileage when comparred to a 4:10 ratio or about 2mpg gain with the 3:73 ratio.

T_Bone

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Bob Huntress

03-26-2008 15:44:33

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Re: 1 ton rear gear ratio in reply to macco, 03-25-2008 19:56:27

I have the F350 crewcab dually. This is the first big pickup that I have had with an automatic. The best thing about the automatic is that I can send my wife to get hay and stuff with it. Since it is a 1989 and has a 7.5 gas engine, I really wish I had a manual transmission for fuel economy.

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jose bagge

03-26-2008 15:04:43

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Re: 1 ton rear gear ratio in reply to macco, 03-25-2008 19:56:27

i am told that the reason they run the 3.73 with the duramax/allison combo is in tow mode the Allison was downshifting under braking and over-reving the engine with 4.10s

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ArleninOr

03-26-2008 12:48:04

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Re: 1 ton rear gear ratio in reply to macco, 03-25-2008 19:56:27

Old, really resent the remark about automatics being for women or urban folk. I drive an automatic but not because I want to. Sit on your right leg and tell me how easy it is to drive a stick with just one leg. On the other hand it is getting harder to get a truck with a stick trans anymore.

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ispud

03-26-2008 09:46:11

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Re: 1 ton rear gear ratio in reply to macco, 03-25-2008 19:56:27

Hey OLD I agree but you forgot the 5 and 4, 6 and 4, 10 and 4 with a twin counter shaft brownie. Now thats for us real men.

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Andy C

03-26-2008 05:27:51

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Re: 1 ton rear gear ratio in reply to macco, 03-25-2008 19:56:27

The quarry I get stone from is getting automatics in their replacement trucks. Get same or better fuel mileage plus less operator error in operation. Drove a friends Mack....kept reaching over to shift. Pretty nice even for someone who likes to shift gears!
Andy

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guido

03-26-2008 05:26:18

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Re: 1 ton rear gear ratio in reply to macco, 03-25-2008 19:56:27

Hello Macco
We had 3.73 ger ratio on our trucks at work.
Rockwell SQHP with a oil pump on the front differential, tandem axle, 80.000 Lb. Gross weight..... ..... . Go forth and drive!
Guido.

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buickanddeere

03-26-2008 02:59:47

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Re: 1 ton rear gear ratio in reply to macco, 03-25-2008 19:56:27

You can't be worried about $$$ if purchasing a new truck that will be worth less than 1/2 it's sticker price in 2 yrs. The lots are full of six month to 2yr old trucks that people can't afford to pay for or purchase fuel for.
With the torque multiplication of the torque convertor, the low 1st gear in todays automatics and the computer handling shift points, shift overlap, line pressure, engine rpms, throttle position, timing, air fuel mixture.
Just press the "Tow" button and drive. Use premium fuel in hot weather.
No real "Rural He Man" with a clutch and manual trans can match the efficiency of the computer

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old

03-25-2008 21:11:36

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Re: 1 ton rear gear ratio in reply to macco, 03-25-2008 19:56:27

Yep thats the problem with an auto tranny. Sorry to me thats a womans truck and a real man has a 4 or 5 or 6 speed. But I'm old school and a mans truck had gears and some times way to many like 16 or more and thats just forward. Sorry automatics are for urban people and women

Hobby farm

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jokers

03-30-2008 13:23:02

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Re: 1 ton rear gear ratio in reply to old, 03-25-2008 21:11:36

Another poorly thought out but very opinionated reply from Old. I`m shocked!

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old

03-30-2008 16:47:44

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Re: 1 ton rear gear ratio in reply to jokers, 03-30-2008 13:23:02

Well sorry I'm old school and always will be old school. I drive older cars and trucks and will till I can't get gas for them. I prefer standard transmission and always will

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Roy Suomi

03-26-2008 18:19:53

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Re: 1 ton rear gear ratio in reply to old, 03-25-2008 21:11:36

Hey !!! This "urban , woman" loves his automatic..I"ve got the F-600 with the Clark 5 and Spicer 3...That"s plenty for me..It"s nice to "chill" driving the automatic with all the buttons close at hand.....I can back-up a lot faster when snowplowing too....Oh , my Mack plow truck at Chardon Township is an automatic too..

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jose bagge

03-26-2008 15:12:49

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Re: 1 ton rear gear ratio in reply to old, 03-25-2008 21:11:36

you keep rowin' gears...and I'll just keep pullin' stuff. Match up any two similar late model trucks with the only difference being the trans and the auto will out pull a manual every time, any day- and most times get better fuel economy as well.

The same school of thought would have all "non-urban" folks shooting muzzle loaders- and while I have one, it ain't my gun of choice for obvious reasons other than black powder season.

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old

03-26-2008 17:57:26

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Re: 1 ton rear gear ratio in reply to jose bagge, 03-26-2008 15:12:49

Only one paper will an auto out pull a standard. Plus a standard will out last an auto 3-4 to one. I have only riped out one standard over the years but see autos go out all the time and they cost 3 times more to fix

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buickanddeere

03-26-2008 20:28:22

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Re: 1 ton rear gear ratio in reply to old, 03-26-2008 17:57:26

How is it the military cut drivetrain repair costs by eliminating standards and using automatics? No real men in the military?

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Kansas Cockshutt

03-27-2008 08:52:41

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Re: 1 ton rear gear ratio in reply to buickanddeere, 03-26-2008 20:28:22

Leave OLD alone. He is a REAL MAN because he has been there and done that and learned the hard way. Scary but not many 18 year olds now-a-days can even master basic math or reading let alone a manual transmission if they grew up on slushboxes.

You can keep your disposable automatic computer controlled plastic pickups that cost $$$ to rebuild or replace and purchase.

Whatever happened to a manual, rubber mat, and 8 foot box? Some where along the line trucks got EXPENSIVE because they are more luxury cars then work vehicles. Look at all the fuel wasted by people using 4x4 mega cabs with a 3" bed to take kids to soccer practice. I don"t want a used one of those to haul plywood, I want a real truck.

But the salesman have got into the heads of the young folks, how can you text message and drink your $4 coffee as you go 80 in a 60 without the hemi guzzler if you are rowing gears, better get an automatic.... Or pull your overloaded trailer 20 mph faster then the other guy and pass in the no pass zone on the steep grade to save three minutes and burn all that extra oil, so you can get home earlier to watch reality t.v.?

What happened to common sense in America?

But just ask me how I REALLY think :-)

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old

03-30-2008 16:50:36

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Re: 1 ton rear gear ratio in reply to Kansas Cockshutt, 03-27-2008 08:52:41

LOL, yep my self I prefer the older car and trucks and always will. I like something that the common man can work on when and if it needs to be worked on. Computers are for the desk top not for cars.

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old

03-26-2008 20:53:08

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Re: 1 ton rear gear ratio in reply to buickanddeere, 03-26-2008 20:28:22

Real men in the milatry just none that know how to drive a stick shift. Now days few kids ever learn how to drive stick so it they even try they ripe them apart. When I learned to drive stick shif I learned by the seat of my pants on a motorcycle so it you messed up you ate the handle bars so you learned fast or lost teeth

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jose bagge

03-27-2008 04:24:26

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Re: 1 ton rear gear ratio in reply to old, 03-26-2008 20:53:08

old, if motorcycles taught you how to drive a stick these kids today would be experts- they do stuff with motorcycles (both dirt and street) that your generation never even dreamed of. As for "kids" and stick shifts- see all those loud lil' hondas with bazooka exhaust and ironing board wings? stick shifts! You are living in the past, my brother- and your prejudice is showing through!! Only on paper will an auto out pull? Hook it up, my friend! I've got the chain if you have the time! I can bang gears with the bust of 'em, but my money is on the auto

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tiresntracks

03-28-2008 13:27:01

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Re: 1 ton rear gear ratio in reply to jose bagge, 03-27-2008 04:24:26

Jose I've read a lot of your posts on this forum and I agree with most of what you've said, but I've got to disagree a little bit on this one. If you hook your auto and my 6-speed back to back with a chain, yours will win. If we hook up to my big gooseneck and head up a 7 percent grade, mine will win.

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working man

03-26-2008 05:02:08

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Re: 1 ton rear gear ratio in reply to old, 03-25-2008 21:11:36

He probably works and he can buy whatever he wants. Instead of livin of the government handouts.

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T_Bone

03-26-2008 17:49:58

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Re: 1 ton rear gear ratio in reply to working man, 03-26-2008 05:02:08

That was uncalled for SD Pete!!! Atleast "old" has the balls to use his own handle when posting a negative comment instead of making one up and trying to hide.

I'm pretty sure "old" paid into a insurance fund when he was working just like the rest of "US" did and that insurance fund was to insure "US" that incase we ever got hurt while working we could live without any assistance.

So where's the handouts??? Insurance is insurance, doesn't matter where it comes from. Old paid his money and now he gets some money.

T_Bone

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old

03-26-2008 17:55:03

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Re: 1 ton rear gear ratio in reply to T_Bone, 03-26-2008 17:49:58

T-bone. Funny thing is I started to pay into the system when I was 14 years old. Most people don't till there in there 20 if even then. Plus I'm also a D.A.V. so I have payed in more ways then one. And thanks for the kind words

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old

03-26-2008 07:37:34

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Re: 1 ton rear gear ratio in reply to working man, 03-26-2008 05:02:08

If I could do a full days work I would but when a doctor says your retired your just that can can not work. If I tried I coud get in trouble and who ever hired me could also end up out of business because they did hire me

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macco

03-26-2008 19:22:17

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thanks for all the repouses in reply to old, 03-26-2008 07:37:34

Thats why I like this site is because "youse" people tell it like it is. To respone to one question of why buy new, my answer is the incentives and rebates are knocking off aprox. 5 thousand green backs & I'm getting a new truck and warrenty. I can't afford not to buy new. Thanks again for your thoughts.

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old

03-26-2008 19:37:03

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Re: thanks for all the repouses in reply to macco, 03-26-2008 19:22:17

Even with all that I will not/would not buy new. The last one I got I had the warranty gone in a month. Ya that was back when they where 12 month or 12,000 miles and yep I had 12,000 in less then a month. Again I'm old school and a computer belongs on a desk not in a car or truck.

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RobMD

03-25-2008 20:06:05

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Re: 1 ton rear gear ratio in reply to macco, 03-25-2008 19:56:27

only if you plan on doing a lot of highway driving and keeping the tranny in high gear. Any hills and you'll be in passing gear like wild.

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jokers

03-30-2008 13:31:54

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Re: 1 ton rear gear ratio in reply to RobMD, 03-25-2008 20:06:05

I`ve seen you make other statements like this Rob, "only if you plan on doing a lot of highway driving and keeping the tranny in high gear. Any hills and you'll be in passing gear like wild." so why not tell us just what exact model and make diesel with auto that you drive that won`t pull a grade without downshifting versus what must be a beloved manual tranny that you can just lug up a hill.

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