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What can lower mileage?

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Circus

04-30-2008 02:55:06

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Have a 76 Chevy 1 ton gasser that runs well except fuel economy. I know a 400 ci won't set any mileage records but would like to repair anything that might hurt mileage. What should I check?

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buickanddeere

05-02-2008 09:47:00

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Re: stuck in the past afraid of change What can lower in reply to Circus, 04-30-2008 02:55:06

Doesn't anybody remember people always needing a boost to get started. Dodge vehicles in the 1960's & 1970's that would not start when damp/wet and always needing another ballast resistor.
Vapour lock, come on. Anybody ever used to try to start or drive a carburated vehicle in the hot summer? Any body to get home ever have to file a set of points or wire brush a set of plugs to get the lead or deposits off?
Nobody here ever had a choke that either stuck on or didn't work. Pump that gas and crank?
Anybody ever remember flooded engines from over choking?
How about people forgetting to shut the choke off and drive for miles and wonder why the gas gauge was dropping so fast? Cars abandoned on the side of the road with flat tires or stalled engines, use dto be a common sight. How about the sound of somebody driving past with a backfiring/missing engine.? Nobody remarks now about somebody's vehicle requiring a tuneup. The "good old days" were not so good.
How is it so many people are uncomfortable around anything electrical or electronic?

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Mike M

05-03-2008 06:32:51

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Re: stuck in the past afraid of change What can lower in reply to buickanddeere, 05-02-2008 09:47:00

I remember some of that stuff. Some of it I just didn't have problems with as you did ? Most all of that stuff was easily cured by knowing to how operate it,easy adjustments,or extremly cheap parts in the case of a ballast resistor and points past their usefull life. These old machines just weren't the piles of junk you seem to think they were. Sure the modern stuff is nice turn the key and go. Idiot proof. You don't have to know how to push the gas pedal to set the choke before you try to start it or heaven forbid LEARN how to work a manual choke ! BUT all this convienence costs BIG bucks to repair. The techs at the shops are even clueless. They just keep trying stuff until it works. You can't leave an extra vechicle set around as some will have a dead battery within 2 months ! from all that electrical drain. You then have to monkey around and use battery maintainers. I still see cars stranded along the side of the road and come into the shop on the hook. $300-$500 fuel pump modules that go out without warning,cam sensors,crank sensors,ecm's,pcm's all can and do go bad leaving you sit and costing you BIG bucks to get replacements.

Basicly all that happened was a set of simple cheap easy fixed problems were traded off for high dollar hard to get at problems. Look back at the "good ole days" I mean really look ! at the total picture. Things today have gone to he!! in a handbasket !

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buickanddeere

05-03-2008 09:12:09

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Re: stuck in the past afraid of change What can lower in reply to Mike M, 05-03-2008 06:32:51

We all agree that credit, borrowing,new vehicle depreciation and "status" is foolish. b.t.w. the definition of "status"? It's purchasing things you don't need, with money you don't have to impress people you don't like. I'm saying that keeping a vehicle too long just becomes a money pit. As I said before I tend to purchase something 2-3 yrs old and drive it until it becomes expensive and irritating to repair. I've never spent $500.00 on an electric fuel pump. You can purchase a Bosch electric intank pump for an 800HP fuel injected race engine for 1/2 that amount. While a trip to the shop does cost more. The number of trips to the shop have dropped. Look how long plugs now last, ignition wires last the life of the vehicle, no points or rotors now, sealed batteries, radial tires last longer, longer intervals between oil changes, unleaded fuel reducing engine wear. It's 2008, not 1978.

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traper

04-30-2008 17:40:26

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Re: What can lower mileage? in reply to Circus, 04-30-2008 02:55:06

circus
One thing people miss on high milage engines is timing chain ware This can be checked by putting braker bar on front pulley bolt rock back and forth you will feel slight free movement then it picks up cam.Set timing marks at TDC. check free movement 6 degrees normal 8 degrees ok over 8 degrees replace chain and gears Traper

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dhermesc

05-01-2008 07:10:46

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Re: What can lower mileage? in reply to traper, 04-30-2008 17:40:26

I second the timing chain issue - just went through that with my 84 F150 with a 302. There was so much slop due to wear on the sprockets I was amazed it even ran - let alone ran efficiently. Vacuume advance doesn't do much good if the engine can't keep time.

If its that old its also good oppurtunity to replace the water pump and hoses while you have it all apart.

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big fred

05-01-2008 09:03:01

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Re: What can lower mileage? in reply to dhermesc, 05-01-2008 07:10:46

Curious how many miles you had on your 302. I have a 302 out of an Econoline van with about 190K miles, and the timing chain is pretty sloppy. Wondering how long I can let my '95 F-150 go. It has 240K on it now, never touched the engine. My only real concern with it is the timing chain.

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rexhellwig

04-30-2008 16:05:38

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Re: What can lower mileage? in reply to Circus, 04-30-2008 02:55:06

Along with the vac advance, make sure the speed advance is working. {the fly-weights can rust up and stick}

I used to have an old 72 with a 350. If you treated the gas pedal real easy, you could get 17 MPG. Load it down and drive fast and you couldn't get 11.

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36 coupe

04-30-2008 15:54:27

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Re: What can lower mileage? in reply to Circus, 04-30-2008 02:55:06

I bought a 77 chevy 3/4 ton.Fellow who owned it gave it up because of poor gas milage.The plastic carb float had absorbed gas and was sinking.I put the timeing light on it and found the vacuum advance wasnt working.These repairs made it run much better.It has a 350 engine in it and I could get 18 mpg if I kept it under 50 mph.The 4bbl carb has two plugs in the bowl that can leak gas into the manifold.They have o rings that can leak.Carb book I have says Duco cement should be used to seal the plugs.Road salt ate the chassis so I use it on the farm now.I wish I could find another one that came from a southern state.I have a 96 Ford now, good truck but its loaded with junk I dont need.Power windows,cruise control,2 gas tanks,auto transmission etc.

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Circus

04-30-2008 13:56:46

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Thanks all in reply to Circus, 04-30-2008 02:55:06

Thanks for good ideas. Not a daily drive but 2wd heavy hauler with a granny low stick, dump box and 12 ply hwy tires @ 75lbs.
I once had a Grand Prix that ran fine but sucked fuel. It turned out the vacumm advance didn't work.

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hay

04-30-2008 13:40:13

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Re: What can lower mileage? in reply to Circus, 04-30-2008 02:55:06

driving habits, IMO, can lower gas mileage more than anything. of course a big engine is also a big deterrant to gas mileage. they are just not made for mileage, but more for sheer power. a simple thing to try is this, buy a vacuum guage at the auto parts and install it on the dashboard or wherever it can be seen good. find the plug on the back of the manifold and hook it up and watch it at idle. then when accelerating watch the gauge go down. TRY to keep the gauge as high as possible when accelerating. that will do more than anything. more vacuum means slower acceleration. i did this on a 1968 mercury cougar with a 302 V-8 in 1969 and ended up getting 22mpg. unheard of in a V-8 in that era. it really works. it is fun to squeeze every last bit of mileage out of a big engine.that vacuum gauge will do more than anything to change driving habits and mileage.

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Glenn F.

04-30-2008 13:24:18

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Re: What can lower mileage? in reply to Circus, 04-30-2008 02:55:06

Properly inflated tires, hittin' on all cylinders and driving habits.

Glenn F.

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trucker40

04-30-2008 07:35:36

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Re: What can lower mileage? in reply to Circus, 04-30-2008 02:55:06

Headers help a Chevy a lot of times.You can maybe get a set from an auto parts store for 100 dollars or less.It could give you quite a bit of horsepower,which translates to better fuel mileage.You have to put header gaskets in quite a bit.Also need glass packs or some free flowing exhaust system.Another thing that might help is see what ratio your differential is and if you can get higher gears and still do whatever you do with it that would help maybe.

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Bob M

04-30-2008 05:43:19

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Re: What can lower mileage? in reply to Circus, 04-30-2008 02:55:06

If your truck has the Rochester Q-jet carburetor disconnecting the linkage that opens the secondary throttles will help. Maximum power (thus acceleration) will be somewhat reduced. But unless you are already an extremely lightfooted driver you WILL see a noticeable improvement in mpg.

Also don't idle the engine. When you stop - shut it down - even if just for a minute or two!

Beyond about all you can do is keep the engine in tune, the air filter clean, use tall and properly inflated tires, keep the front axle disengaged, etc. as the others suggest below. And yes, installing a clutch fan or electric fan will increase mileage several % - and it gives quieter running too. (I ran a similar vehicle for 10+ years with NO fan. Never once had a cooling problem with it�.though it never ran in heavy traffic either.)

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buickanddeere

04-30-2008 05:42:14

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Re: What can lower mileage? in reply to Circus, 04-30-2008 02:55:06

I agree, tall narrow tires instead of the big knobbies. The electric fan too. Find an oxygen sensor & bung in the scrap yard and weld it into an exhaust manifold. Then attach one of those $9.99 electronic voltmeters . Tune the carb to get about 0.700 volts. Install a 195 degree stat. Install a T-56 manausl or a TH700R4 trans with lockup torque convertor. Cheapest and simplist solution by far. Would be to scrap it and purchase a 90's vintage mid sized vehicle and a 5' X 10' trailer. A 76 for daily use is 20+ years too old.

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Circus

05-02-2008 04:40:29

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Re: What can lower mileage? in reply to buickanddeere, 04-30-2008 05:42:14

What if I take the FI, intake, exhaust and electronics off a newer small block, the junk yard's full of them, and retrofit em onto the 400ci. Has anyone tried?

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Mike M

04-30-2008 09:49:38

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Re: What can lower mileage? in reply to buickanddeere, 04-30-2008 05:42:14

That 76' vintage was good enough for daily use back then and there is no reason it isn't fine today if kept up ? My oldest tractor is a 1936 JD B and I'm sure there is no reason it couldn't go out a put in a full days work if called upon.

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05-01-2008 03:32:06

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Re: What can lower mileage? in reply to Mike M, 04-30-2008 09:49:38

I would still be using my 77 ,but the road salt got to the chassis.We seem to be stuck in a groove that says our success in life is determined by a new truck every year.The 77 cost less to fix, had no pollution junk on it to screw up and cost big bucks.I dont care what the neighbors think of me,they dont pay my bills.I use a 45 JD and a 54 Ford tractor, they handle all my work.Most Ive ever paid for a truck is 2 grand.If I could find one I would buy a 1928/31 model A Ford ton and a half truck to use on the farm.Never made a monthly payment on a car or truck and never will.

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PJH

05-01-2008 08:09:25

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Re: What can lower mileage? in reply to 36, 05-01-2008 03:32:06

My sentiments exactly!! I have an old 77 Ford 3/4 ton I use around the farm. Looks like death warmed over, but good mechanical shape - new tires, brakes, tranny, fair 400 engine, reliable, and I'm not a Ford lover. Folks question my taste, and I tell them, "Just a couple more payments and it's mine!" The paint on those old Fords lasted a couple weeks and started popping off, and all those bare spots are now rusted and in the majority. I tell everyone that I've been meaning to give it a coat of wax - just ain't got around to it.

Going to the lumberyard one day, a FedEx van jumped right out in front of me, but got cold feet and decided he couldn't get into traffic and stopped sideways in front of me, blocking my lane. I locked up the brakes and slid right up to his drivers door. Scared him to death and we had a big laugh, but I can't figure - If I was gonna pull a trick like that, I'd at least do it in front of a vehicle that LOOKED like it had brakes, ha.

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Mike M

05-01-2008 10:22:43

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Re: What can lower mileage? in reply to PJH, 05-01-2008 08:09:25

If you had a new truck with those anti-lock ( anti-stop )brakes you would of hit him.

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buickanddeere

05-01-2008 05:42:27

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stuck in the past afraid of change What can lower in reply to 36, 05-01-2008 03:32:06

The old stuff gets into the situation where one is always fixing something. I've tried driving vehicles into the ground. When the costs are all tallied up. It's been cheaper purchasing a 2-3 year old from a dealer auction. And driving it 7-12 or so years until something major happens. How does bringing home a 2-3 year old vehicle impress neighbors? And who gives a rat's bum what they think. They can go online and find my T-4 statement. The "pollution junk" has made vehicles last longer, drive better, have more power and greater fuel efficiency. Since the late 1980's 250-325HP gassers six seater trucks getting real world 15mpg and going 250,000miles are the norm. The 60,70 & 80's were gutless, 5-10mpg and needed a complete rebuild before 100,000miles. Anybody remember vehicles until electronic ignition and fuel injection? Vehicles backfiring due to ignition troubles, stuck chokes, stuck heat riser valves, vapour lock,worn points replaced every 3000miles, cap & rotor every 10,000 miles, ne wplugs every 6000miles, failure to start when cold or damp. Just how exactly is that "better"? If older was better, why aren't you all driving 1950's vintage vehicles? I

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36 coupe

05-03-2008 04:55:40

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Re: stuck in the past afraid of change What can lower in reply to buickanddeere, 05-01-2008 05:42:27

I would be driving a 30s truck if I could find one.I drove a new 53 Ford truck chasing parts, bringing drivers to their big trucks when I was in my teens.The truck carried no usless stuff on it.It started fine in all weather and got good gas milage.I hauled pallets in it and brought 10.00 20 truck tires to the tire shop for repairs.Friend and I went out with my truck yesterday.I bought some 3/4 plywood,he needed some 2x4s.We bought grocerys ,grain, oil dry.Gas for the tractors.My truck is a 96 F150,gets 19 mpg, cost 2 grand has 177,000 on it.Ive put some brake tubing on it,a starter and new battery in the 4 years Ive run it.I expect things to wear out and have to fix them.Try buying a new spark plug mounted coil for your newer truck.My old truck hauled every thing we needed as well as a new 40 grand truck.We have a saying here that goes.Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without.The current craze of buying with credit cards has brought this country to ruin.I see people buying food with credit cards now.

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36 coupe

05-03-2008 04:09:53

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Re: stuck in the past afraid of change What can lower in reply to buickanddeere, 05-01-2008 05:42:27

My 77 chev has 250,000 miles on it.No over haul needed.It could haul a ton of lime or fertlizer or half cord of firewood with ease.It has a 4 bl carb and can get up an go if you want to waste fuel.I can go out this morning and buy a brand new truck for cash but aint gone foolish yet. Every body drive a used truck any way.The minute you drive off the dealers lot its used and has lost one third of what you just paid for it.Not stuck in the past.Money in the bank draws interest.5 years of payments can double the loan amount.

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Mike M

05-01-2008 06:52:03

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Re: stuck in the past afraid of change What can lower in reply to buickanddeere, 05-01-2008 05:42:27

WHAT CARS HAVE YOU DRIVEN ? 60's and 70's gutless ??? Ever here of MUCSLE CARS ! the 80's were way down on power most models from the EPA , but not all. 5-10 mpg ??? 454 or 460 V8 in trucks would get 8 mpg even with the heaviest of loads ! Dad had a 76' Ford van with a 460 and I think it made 13 mpg on the hiway.

And as for short lived ? The reason it appears that they never made it to 100,000 miles was simply the STANDARD practice of the day of odometer roll back ! No one ever knew how many miles were really on one !

I'd rather buy cheap points,caps and rotors and plugs any day than high dollar coil packs,iridum plugs,high dollar fuel module assemblies. 100,000 mile tune ups are more costly than doing old fashion tune ups more often.

And in Ohio with all the salt and calcium cloride spread on the roads , yes the dreaded stuff that eats away tractor rims is now eating away our cars VERY quickly.

My dad used to run Studebaker cars in the 50's early 60's and his older ones full of adults pulling a ski boat and trailer would reportadly get 20 mpg ? or more ? I forget the exact numbers , but he remembers. And I'm sure he also checked it with pencil and paper

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buickanddeere

05-02-2008 06:23:29

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Re: stuck in the past afraid of change What can lower in reply to Mike M, 05-01-2008 06:52:03

I'm talking 1971 to 1985 if you read closer. As for the 1960's muscle cars? You can get a plain boring used late 1990's/2000's pickup that will out accelerate some of the 1960's muscle cars. And certainly handle better, brake better, safer in case of a collision and get superior mileage. As for the fastest of the 1960's muscle cars, with the exception of some limited 100 vehicle production race cars to make it legal for Nascar classes etc. I have an 21 year old six cylinder in storage that will take any of them. Have a look at what's been at the dealerships since the late 1990's and what is coming. Off the lot 12 & 13 second cars that are reliable, safe, handle, have brakes and great mileage. They easily tuned for another second less with off the shelf bolt on parts without using NOS. The 1960's muscle cars were great in their day and get even better when we think back 20-40 years to when we were younger. Lets not forget HP then was gross rated at the flywheel on a dyno. Cars are making that HP today at the rear wheels. Turn the calender ahead to 1986 and later and there is no comparison to the 1960's. Better re-check your memory on those mileage numbers. They are too good for those days and they don't measure up to todays numbers. Tune ups or not. Your 1920's to 1980's vehicles didn't cold start or wet start.

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Mike M

05-02-2008 07:31:03

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Re: stuck in the past afraid of change What can lower in reply to buickanddeere, 05-02-2008 06:23:29

If stuff from the 20's to 80's didn't start cold or wet then how in the heck did anyone get anything done ? In the early part of that time this country was booming !

I wish I had referance to the article I saw about the tractors that went to the Artic. They were Massey Ferguson TO30 they went threw it all and kept on going !

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dave2

04-30-2008 04:47:13

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Re: What can lower mileage? in reply to Circus, 04-30-2008 02:55:06

Just normal maintenance and a 2x4 under the gas pedal helps. I've got a ford w/ a 351, folks on the ford forum swear that taking off the fan and clutch and mounting an electric fan from a car will get a couple of miles. Some say to overinflate the tires, but is the couple mile gain worth a set of tires? If it's 4x4 don't lock the hubs unless you need to use it, if they are auto hubs, make sure they work properly. If you're driving a 1 ton vehicle around, you must need it. I wouldn't fool with a lot of gimmicks and adjustments that will make it a nuisance when needed.

my .02...

Dave

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big fred

04-30-2008 19:54:03

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Re: What can lower mileage? in reply to dave2, 04-30-2008 04:47:13

Run the numbers and you'll see that it probably is. I had a '79 Suburban with a 400 small block and 4.10 gears. Got 8.5 mpg. Tires normally last me at least 50K miles, but even if they only lasted 30K from overinflation (and I have yet to see where overinflation causes premature wear on modern tires) I'd only have to get about a half mpg increase to pay for the increased tire wear over the life of the tires.

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jose bagge

04-30-2008 07:12:53

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about tire inflation... in reply to dave2, 04-30-2008 04:47:13

I am in the tire business, and probably change 600 passenger car and light truck tires a day. i defy anyone to go into my scrap tire trailers and find even a single tire worn out due to OVERINFLATION. It is so rare anymore as to a virtual oddity- It just does not happen anymore with radial tires.
best tire mileage, handling and fuel economy will occur right at the tire's maximum cold inflation- yes, it will ride hard- but it will run cooler, last longer and handle better- plus carry more load.
The whole Firestone-Ford Exploder issue was an undersized tire/ too low psi issue...Hot Rock was a scapegoat- and I don't even sell 'em.

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Gerald J.

04-30-2008 08:20:16

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Re: about tire inflation... in reply to jose bagge, 04-30-2008 07:12:53

Pumping up the tires has had more effect on improving gas mileage than anything I've tried in the last 30 years. And its the simplest thing to do.

Gerald J.

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jose bagge

04-30-2008 04:15:52

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Re: What can lower mileage? in reply to Circus, 04-30-2008 02:55:06

Unless it is truly running ratty, there isn't a whole lot of "tuning" that will improve fuel economy enough to really notice it by calculation. If it runs poorly, fixing all the "driveability issues " will also improve fuel economy. What kind of carb- Q-Jet?
Flexi- fan? What size tires are on it? go taller, stay narrow. (let me know what's on it, we can get you into something with the same load carrying capacity)
Got a visor on it? get rid of it.
Got an air dam on it? 2wd, not off roaded? make one. Time to get creative with the cheap "aero" tricks!

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