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PVC, PEX, or Copper?

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dave2

05-06-2008 06:49:17




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Hey folks,

I've got to rerun some plumbing in the horse stalls and barn and was thinking it'd be easier and take less time to run new and replace the galvanized stuff already there. I've already got a roll of PVC that I bought to run water to the new stalls in the back yard and have plenty to do what I want to replace. Existing pipe runs along the wall about horse high and leaves some nice scars. I'll run the new stuff alone the top of the wall with drops to the waterers. Everything will be insulated and heat tape run (before the insulation) with 4" PVC split and covering the drop pipes. Copper is real expensive now compared to a few years ago, so PVC or PEX would probably be the way I go unless copper would be the best choice. Any opinions, experience, advice, or warnings will be appreciated.
While I'm on the subject and haven't started the installation, I have a brainstorm that I'd like someone to with experience to shoot down or give the thumbs up to.

I had thought to use something like a small water heater tank at the beginning (inside a room that doesn't freeze). Run the supply line into the inlet, then a loop (for lack of better words) that goes out the outlet through all drinkers, faucets, etc, and back into the return on the tank with a small circulation pump that I'd hook up to a thermostat to come on when temps drop below freezing. This would be instead of the heat tape. Bad idea?

Thanks, Dave

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MSD

05-07-2008 10:00:19




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 Re: PVC, PEX, or Copper? in reply to dave2, 05-06-2008 06:49:17  
I do new home construction. The last couple of years the plumbers have been really pushing the pex. The state inspector says he wouldn't use it and wished nobody else would. This spring the plumber says he is going back to copper. Seems some water is eating the fittings out and causing leaks. He didn't think he needed to get into any lawsuits over it so he was switching back to copper.



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Cliff Neubauer

05-07-2008 09:42:55




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 Re: PVC, PEX, or Copper? in reply to dave2, 05-06-2008 06:49:17  
The Pex is really easy to work with and you can buy assorted fitting kits on ebay for not too much money. The crimpers aren't cheap but the pex goes together so fast I think it's worth buying the crimpers.



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Phil Doolittle

05-07-2008 09:00:48




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 Re: PVC, PEX, or Copper? in reply to dave2, 05-06-2008 06:49:17  
I remodeled our house in 1999 and utilized the water heater loop method . At the far end of your piping run ( last tap ) put an inline shut off valve and run smaller tubing to the bottom drainvalve of your water heater. Remove drain valve if possible, and install a T" with the cleanout valve to drain system and a second inline valve for the return piping from the far end of your plumbing. PVC valves work great, and you can shut off the distant valve to avoid the thermosphin pumping and save the heating of that loop if you chose (probally turn the heater off). The valve lets you flush drain your heater tank. This has worked great for me as well as a friends cabin innorthern WIS. GOOD LUCK

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Goose

05-07-2008 08:21:52




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 Re: PVC, PEX, or Copper? in reply to dave2, 05-06-2008 06:49:17  
If you have any corners or curves, you might want to consider PEX. I like working with the stuff, and it's fairly flexible. In doing insurance inspections, I've been running into a lot of it in new construction lately.

Ace Hardware carries an extensive line of connectors and fittings called "Sharkbite" (I think) that just push onto the end of a piece of PEX and lock. I just used one on a stool in one of our bathrooms last weekend. There's also a tool to release them if you ever need to.

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dave2

05-07-2008 00:35:01




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 Re: PVC, PEX, or Copper? in reply to dave2, 05-06-2008 06:49:17  
I meant black poly when I said PVC.. As for the tank, I would only use the tank and not heat the water, just keep it moving in freezing temps. This past winter, it only dropped below freezing a few nights and a couple of days. The drinkers can be included in the "loop" as they have an inlet and outlet. Right now, I have a plastic pipe plug in the outlet that acts as a freeze plug. Also have a cellar under the barn that stays a constant 50 degrees, was thinking about running a line there and using it as a base camp for the tank idea. I like the polly too because the fittings are slip on and can be mostly done by hand and easy to be creative. Little pricier than hose clamps, but affordable.

Thanks, Dave

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jose bagge

05-06-2008 14:58:35




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 Re: PVC, PEX, or Copper? in reply to dave2, 05-06-2008 06:49:17  
I got tires of replacing/repairing copper in the house repeatedly due to water acidity, and redid it in PVC- no probs since. My barn is in black poly and hose clamps- not pretty, but highly effective, easily repaired and can be capped quickly if there is a gigantic calamity



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Vern-MI

05-07-2008 03:27:46




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 Re: PVC, PEX, or Copper? in reply to jose bagge, 05-06-2008 14:58:35  
Jose, what type of tubing and fittings did you use and how long has the PVC been in place?



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jose bagge

05-09-2008 11:07:54




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 Re: PVC, PEX, or Copper? in reply to Vern-MI, 05-07-2008 03:27:46  
In the house, i used the white PVC and fittings all available from Lowes, along with their glue. I fabbed it up by duck taping it along the copper, and once I completed the work just cut it into the pump tank. Used a sawzall to remove all the copper. ben in for 10 years now.

in the barn, I used the black poly used for underground sprinklers, along with the corresponding barb fittings and 13/16" hose clamps. Used conduit clamps to secure it to the walls. Up about 2.5 years with no issues.

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bc

05-06-2008 08:05:44




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 Re: PVC, PEX, or Copper? in reply to dave2, 05-06-2008 06:49:17  
Pex, it won't split if it does freeze. PVC doesn't come in rolls, just straight, hard sticks with fittings that glue in with pvc glue. Black poly pipe comes in the rolls. You have to use slip in fittings and hose clamps. I have had too much trouble with the hose clamps making tight connections and staying leak proof. The black poly splits easy.

Your water heater idea is used all the time in motels and hotels to keep instantly available hot water to all the rooms. Your returns would have to be right at the outlet valves to avoid them freezing. Costs to heat the water but heat tapes are so expensive and use so much heat and I don't trust them. At 0 degrees, any cold air getting to the pipe in a particular place could freeze them anyway even with heat tape.(I lived in a mobile home once, BTDT) Heating the water oxigenates the water and to me doesn't taste the same. Horses are kind of finicky about what they drink. Put some hot water in a bucket, let and cool and see if they drink it. I have two horse tank water lines (water hose actually) that loop overhead and come down to the tanks with a 2 line splitter valve at the first tank and one end at the faucet. Unhook the faucet and open the valves and it all gravity drains. If I had a lot of horses and tanks, I'd go with a more permanent setup. Before I got my hoses looped right to drain, If one of my hose sections froze up, I'd just take in in the house to thaw. Main problem is to tie the ends down and the tank heaters down cause horses like to grab them and throw them on the ground.

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Don L C

05-06-2008 07:49:30




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 Re: PVC, PEX, or Copper? in reply to dave2, 05-06-2008 06:49:17  
dave 2 ---

I don't think that would keep your drops from freezing.....



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