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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

slight shock from table saw

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mwkellner

05-20-2008 11:05:36

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I have a question that is vague because I know very little about electricity. I have a used table saw that I have had and used occasionally for about 5 years. The other day I was using it to make few quick cuts while barefooted on the concrete garage slab. when I touched the saw while running it gave me a slight shock. I honestly can not say if this is a new problem or if I have never used it while barefooted before. Can Y"all help me with a suggestion about what might be causing the problem?

Something that is worrying me is that I recently threw out an old refrigerator that was in my garage for the exact same thing. could this be a problem with the wiring in my garage? Or just a coincedence? Now you know how little I know about this, Please help with any suggestions. Thank you VERY much for reading. -- Martin

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buickanddeere

05-22-2008 11:44:42

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Re: slight shock from table saw in reply to mwkellner, 05-20-2008 11:05:36

Then why don't they run two bare copper wires, one ground, one neutral and one insulated line out to receptacles?

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Bernie Steffen

05-22-2008 18:24:42

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Re: slight shock from table saw in reply to buickanddeere, 05-22-2008 11:44:42

Its pretty common practice when installing a ceiling fan, where there was a light, to install two switches where there was one, use both black wire and white wire as hot wires and use the bare copper wire as neutral. Not saying its right just seen it done alot. Bernie Steffen

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buickanddeere

05-21-2008 18:48:19

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Re: slight shock from table saw in reply to mwkellner, 05-20-2008 11:05:36

Do you mean to say that in each receptacle box the bare ground and the white neutral are directly connected together?
That's both wrong and bad.
The neutral is an insulated current carrying conductor. The bare ground is to keep the case of grounded devices to near earth potential. And to provide a path for fault current.

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Bernie STeffen

05-22-2008 07:03:05

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Re: slight shock from table saw in reply to buickanddeere, 05-21-2008 18:48:19

Sorry I read wrong. I Ment service box. However I fail to see what it would hurt to hook them tobgether at the receticle box if they go to the same place in the service box. Thanks BErnie Steffen

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Bernie Steffen

05-22-2008 06:56:54

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Re: slight shock from table saw in reply to buickanddeere, 05-21-2008 18:48:19

Okay thats why I didn"t want to get into it. I"m surely not argueing with you but Where do you hook the two wires? White and ground. Any electrial srvice I"ve ever seen, two hot wires coming in to the box one ground two hot Dround always goes to the neutral lug., Don"t know if its right but thats the wsay it is. Bernie Steffen

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Bernie Steffen

05-21-2008 16:01:36

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Re: slight shock from table saw in reply to mwkellner, 05-20-2008 11:05:36

Okay guys I didn't want to get into this but I just have to know. I checked every electrical box on my place, five in all. Every one has all the neutral and ground wires hooked to a bar in the boxes. The bar is grounded to the box chassis. What else are you supposed to do with the wires if they are not hooked together? JUst for my info Bernie Steffen

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CH(upstate,NY)

05-21-2008 15:23:02

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Re: slight shock from table saw in reply to mwkellner, 05-20-2008 11:05:36

I just finished wiring my new shop. GFCI is code with a concrete floor. The outlets have to be at least 18" from the floor.

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dave guest

05-20-2008 20:14:10

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Re: slight shock from table saw in reply to mwkellner, 05-20-2008 11:05:36

Start with utility company. Their ground from pole should prevent this happening. It should be backed up by grounding rods at service. If this is okay, check out garage wiring. GFCI also should be used on every plug in garage. Motor could have leakage current. GFCI should repeatedly trip if this is case. Must have grounding wires in all circuits-no 2 prong plugs please. Good electrician might save your life. I have seen homes where utility ground was defective and grounding rods also defective. People were getting shocked taking showers. SCARY!

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wdTom

05-20-2008 18:09:30

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Re: slight shock from table saw in reply to mwkellner, 05-20-2008 11:05:36

I have heard of this before . I think this problem can come fron not enoght of a ground at the ground rod that grounds your whole system, so the electricity looks for another ground , and some leaks out through the ground wire and through you to ground. The ground and neutral are connected and one and the same in the panel box so if you don't have a good ground rod, maybe into damp soil you could have a properly wired system and still have some of the neutral leaking back through the ground wires and into the saw and into you and out into the floor.

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fixerupper

05-20-2008 19:16:28

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Re: slight shock from table saw in reply to wdTom, 05-20-2008 18:09:30

Yes, by all means get a pro to check it out. Something somewhere in the house might be shorting a little into the neutral. You only feel it when you are well grounded, like bare feet on a cement floor.

I had a brand new hog waterer that the hogs wouldn't touch and it ended being a bad thermostat that was letting a little juice get free. The waterer was bonded to a ground rod that was driven eight feet in the ground and everything was wired right. I couldn't feel a thing when I stuck my hand in the water cause I had boots on, but the hogs had four bare feet on wet concrete so they were about as well grounded as you can get. Needless to say they felt it loud and clear. I took me a real long time to trace that one down. Jim

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Bob

05-20-2008 18:10:58

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WD Tom in reply to wdTom, 05-20-2008 18:09:30

You posted "The ground and neutral are connected and one and the same in the panel box"

NOT TRUE, IF this is a subpanel!

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RobMD

05-20-2008 19:03:08

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Re: WD Tom in reply to Bob, 05-20-2008 18:10:58

Whew. People are scary sometimes with electricity. That ground needs to run to a reputable ground source at the main if no ground rod is used at any subpanel (depending on codes applicable in the area).

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dr sportster

05-20-2008 15:49:49

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Re: slight shock from table saw in reply to mwkellner, 05-20-2008 11:05:36

You are not jumping up high enough when making a cut.Get the fridge back and use rubber tongs to remove each beer.You may need a suspension system for best results.Hang from ceiling.If these cures dont work call an electrcian.

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buickanddeere

05-20-2008 15:26:38

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Re: slight shock from table saw in reply to mwkellner, 05-20-2008 11:05:36

1st of all it worries me when somebody is using a table saw without wearing decent boots, eye,ear and hand protection. Somewhere some tinkerer may have come to the conclusion that a ground wire and neutral wire is the "same thing". They are not.
As previously stated this is the time to call in an electrician. There is something wrong in the place and somebody is going to die from shock or fire.

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BobHnwOh

05-20-2008 13:50:25

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Re: slight shock from table saw in reply to mwkellner, 05-20-2008 11:05:36

Had a drill press do that one time,I unpluged it,turned the plug 180 deg.plugged it back in,no more shock.

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Bob

05-20-2008 13:36:34

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Re: slight shock from table saw in reply to mwkellner, 05-20-2008 11:05:36

If you don't underrstand electricity enough to check it out yourself, for gosh sakes get a PRO to check out the service entrance panel or sub panel in/for the garage. Since TWO separate devices have shocked you, it seems really likely there's a common issue... probably the installation of the electrical panel,

It may not be properly grounded, or there may be issues with the separation of the neutral and ground circuits.

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Jim K

05-20-2008 12:40:24

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Re: slight shock from table saw in reply to mwkellner, 05-20-2008 11:05:36

Check out the ground on both ends of the cord, be sure that conections are good n tite. You do have a 3 wire cord and a three prong cord cap right? If not get one. Like someone else said, it could be the ground between the panel and the outlet. Do you have a three wire wireing system where this saw is? (Hot=black, white=neutral, and a bare or green=ground).

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Cliff (VA)

05-20-2008 12:34:13

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Re: slight shock from table saw in reply to mwkellner, 05-20-2008 11:05:36

It sounds like your garage outlets may not be wired correctly to me.

I would suggest that you go buy one of those plug in ground testers. I am attaching a link to one that also tests GFCI outlets. It is about $20 at Lowes. The ones without the GFCI are cheaper. I have one in each of my toolboxes.

You just plug it in and you should get 2 yellow lights. Less than 2 yellow lights or a red light indicates a problem. They usually have a decoder ring on the side to exactly diagnose what is going on.

This can be a serious problem (electricution or fire). You need to get this checked out and fixed right away. I would unplug everything in the garage until you get this sorted out. Wear rubber soled shoes while you are doing the unpluging.

Good luck and stay safe.

Cliff (VA)

GFCI Outlet Tester

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Jiles

05-20-2008 11:53:38

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Re: slight shock from table saw in reply to mwkellner, 05-20-2008 11:05:36

I would suggest replacing the recepticle with a GFCI "ground fault circut interreptor" I have several especially outside and in my bathrooms, kitchen, barn and basement. One of the best safety devices ever made. They can be bought at most any hardware store, lowes or home depot. They were priced at about 5-7 dollars each.

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Sean Feeney 2

05-20-2008 11:47:07

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Re: slight shock from table saw in reply to mwkellner, 05-20-2008 11:05:36

Sounds like bad ground! If you don't know much about it hire someone electricity will kill you dead.

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mwkellner

05-20-2008 11:54:45

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Re: slight shock from table saw in reply to Sean Feeney 2, 05-20-2008 11:47:07

Do you mean a bad ground in the motor or in the cord? -- thanks so much

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Vern-MI

05-20-2008 12:17:30

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Re: slight shock from table saw in reply to mwkellner, 05-20-2008 11:54:45

You've had two devices in the garage that exhibited this behavior. Are they on the same circuit? Could be a poorly grounded circuit or a poorly grounded service panel so you become the ground. Not something to fool with.

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