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Darn Square nuts/bolts!

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G. L. Perry

07-27-2003 20:20:31

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Why did the old tractors have square nuts and bolts on everything?? I have some attachments on old tractors, have those, and are big, too big to find sockets for anymore. Hardly anyone has sockets and you sure can't get old rusty bolts out with an open end wrench. I would never use those darn bolts and throw them away when I get them off. What were they thinkin'??? Maybe these fit the near worthless orig tractor wrenches in boxes of day?? Man, I HATE square nuts/bolts!!

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Charlie V aka F20II

07-29-2003 09:46:00

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Re: Darn Square nuts/bolts! in reply to G. L. Perry, 07-27-2003 20:20:31

Any of them you want to throw away, put um in a box an send to me I'll take all ya gots an then some :o)

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Don LC

07-28-2003 20:02:26

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Re: Darn Square nuts/bolts! in reply to G. L. Perry, 07-27-2003 20:20:31

You need old tools....they were made for a " monkey wrench" ....they are made like a pipe wrench ,with smoth,straight jaws.....

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Stan TN

07-28-2003 19:23:13

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Re: Darn Square nuts/bolts! in reply to G. L. Perry, 07-27-2003 20:20:31

I kind of like 'em, you get to use a box end of a larger size than the open end you are using to keep the darned rusty ones from turning. A little PB blaser to eat up the rust, two combination wrenches sometimes a persuader and they come right off. I used two spike harrow sections to make one and used every square nut and bolt I could rescue.

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wdTom

07-28-2003 18:25:51

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Re: Darn Square nuts/bolts! in reply to G. L. Perry, 07-27-2003 20:20:31

Square nuts and bolts are "old tech". When there was a lot more room on machines to get at the nut or bolt head. When the mechanic only had one wrench and it fit all. Especially the farmer. Farmers were not mechanics and when they got a tractor they didn't get a $1000 worth of tools to work on it. They used the monkey wrench they had. A cresent wrench would have been a high tech tool to a farmer in the 20s and 30s. Square heads work a lot better with adjuatable wrenches than a hex head. I have called (fondly) square head fastners "farmer bolts or nuts" for sometime now. I do perfer hex though, fit my sockets and box wrenches, yes, I have a few square sockets too for the square head plugs and fastners I encounter.

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Jerry A.

07-29-2003 06:02:38

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Re: Re: Darn Square nuts/bolts! in reply to wdTom, 07-28-2003 18:25:51

Couldn't have put it better myself. Roger Welsch says basically the same thing in his first "tractor book" (I'm still laughing at some of his lines...). The "average" farmer in the 20's and 30's had very limited experience and tools. In addition, the tolerances for making a sqare nut were lower (I've seen some that weren't really square; I think they sheared off steel strapping and threaded crude holes). My grandfather could adjust/fix most of the old implemennts and tractors with a cresent wrench and a monkey wrench (his favorite). Tough to do that today.

The stuff served it purpose. The fact that all this old iron hasn't completely rusted away after 60 + years under the hedge trees is a testament to the quality of steel/iron in that equipment.

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Tractor Dan

07-28-2003 16:38:05

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Re: Darn Square nuts/bolts! in reply to G. L. Perry, 07-27-2003 20:20:31

i lucked out an old farmer saw that i had a few old tractors and liked working on them he gave me a big set of square sockets

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Van

07-28-2003 16:00:49

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Re: Darn Square nuts/bolts! in reply to G. L. Perry, 07-27-2003 20:20:31

keep it original, the sockets are available and so is the hardware. Why not restore rice rockets, they do not have them

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Okla/Kans Bill

07-28-2003 15:23:02

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Re: Darn Square nuts/bolts! in reply to G. L. Perry, 07-27-2003 20:20:31

Never had a square head bolt round off. I dont usually change them back to square if I need to. I do try to reuse them if at all possible. Rusty, U might remember I was workin on my 30. Thought I needed to replace the rear main bearing. Turned out (Lord thank you) that it was only that every bolt in the bell housing holding it to the engione was finger tight, or loose. But before I found that out, I was going to replace the bearing which ment I had to pull the engine. I broke the left front square headed bolt as it was rusted ti 1/2 its size in the rail. I repaced it with an all thread with a nut on botyh sides. I will replace it with a square head bolt when my dealer gets on in Aug he says. That is about the only square head bolts on it.

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paul

07-28-2003 11:08:41

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Re: Darn Square nuts/bolts! in reply to G. L. Perry, 07-27-2003 20:20:31

Actually, I get along with them very well. They work very good with an open ended wrench, as they have great big corners. It's the 6-sided ones that I round off & can't move with an open ended wrench. Now, what I hate are the 12-point sockets & wrenches - what were THEY thinking when they came up with those? Rounds off every bolt I touch!!!! --->Paul

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RAB

07-28-2003 09:49:42

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Re: Darn Square nuts/bolts! in reply to G. L. Perry, 07-27-2003 20:20:31

Presumably because they were easy to forge square or were turned from square bar in those days. They were probably 'high tech' in those days. OK things have moved on, but square nuts were used on adjustable plough parts for a long time for a very good reason - the spanners supplied were fit for the job and the nuts lasted a long time. It was easy for the local 'engineer' to make new nuts from square bar - drill it, thread it, cut it off as required. New spanners were easy too. Maybe you fit metric hardware, after reaming the holes to the next size up, or fit socket head set screws!?! Me, I will replace with original if it's appropriate, wherever possible. It's so easy to make a decent copy of the old one, even if the thread is slightly different.

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8-point socket

07-28-2003 08:43:08

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Re: Darn Square nuts/bolts! in reply to G. L. Perry, 07-27-2003 20:20:31

You can still get 8-point sockets in most any size you need. Sears offers them below 1" size. Proto has them. Snap-On too and others. A good industrial tool supply place can get them. Perhaps your local hardware store can order them too. Most places no longer stock them but they are available.

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G. L. Perry

07-28-2003 09:22:49

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Re: Re: Darn Square nuts/bolts! in reply to 8-point socket, 07-28-2003 08:43:08

I disagree on sources. I have some 15/16 and 1" and 7/8" bolts on my old MM. Sears has 3/4 and two small ones, Snap-0n had a few more, 1" I think and about $30 each, cripes! Others I don't know. for me a pipe wrench or a gas wrench is gonna do it. They WON'T be back on for sure!

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max

07-28-2003 08:12:47

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Re: Darn Square nuts/bolts! in reply to G. L. Perry, 07-27-2003 20:20:31

One thing about square bolts and nuts is that you will never round the corners off like you do regularlly with hex heads.

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07-28-2003 07:29:12

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Re: Darn Square nuts/bolts! in reply to G. L. Perry, 07-27-2003 20:20:31

I find a Standard Crescent wrench works pretty good on them. A "Metric" Crescent won't work.

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newgen

07-28-2003 05:15:38

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Re: Darn Square nuts/bolts! in reply to G. L. Perry, 07-27-2003 20:20:31

What you need is an 8 piont socket.I havn't bought any lately but shouldn't be hard to find.

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hay

07-28-2003 03:26:38

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Re: Darn Square nuts/bolts! in reply to G. L. Perry, 07-27-2003 20:20:31

before torching them off, try using a little penetrating oil or pure antifreeze to loosen them. you may have to soak them several times. sometimes a 12 pt. socket will fit just right on the head and makes loosening much easier. patience is the key to keeping the originality of the old style fasteners.

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correct policeman

07-28-2003 02:03:36

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Re: Darn Square nuts/bolts! in reply to G. L. Perry, 07-27-2003 20:20:31

You know he's joking , don't you? No one would be tupid enough to torch off and discard theORIGINAL, DATED,PROPER fittings and fasteners for a piece of machinery. C'mon, they's dummies allover the place, but give 'em a LITTLE credit.

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rustyfarmall

07-28-2003 05:34:34

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Re: Re: Darn Square nuts/bolts! in reply to correct policeman, 07-28-2003 02:03:36

I have gone to the effort of trying to save these square headed bolts in order to maintain originality, but when you get that bolt out and find that it has rusted away to the point it is now only half the diameter of original, or the threads are so pitted they won't clean up, even with a die, then I trash the thing, and head for the farm supply store.
A restoration using rusty hardware is not a very good restoration. I would rather see new hex head bolts, even if they are not correct.

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Keith Miller

07-28-2003 08:35:36

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Re: Re: Re: Darn Square nuts/bolts! in reply to rustyfarmall, 07-28-2003 05:34:34

Square head bolts are still available. They do cost more than hex and you will have to order them at most places. I know there are several suppliers with website where you can order them.

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Dave JWI

07-27-2003 23:35:35

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Re: Darn Square nuts/bolts! in reply to G. L. Perry, 07-27-2003 20:20:31

I don't know, I really like those old square headed nuts and bolts. I've taken apart a couple of old Ferguson cultivators, an old IH sickle mower, and the pens in my barn which all had those bolts and after 50 plus years they all came apart with open ended wrenches. The modern fasteners will have to be cut off in only a couple of years because of rust. Oh yeah, there was an old John Deere digger also. All those machines were rusty old machines that had sat out in many Wisconsin winters and summers. Even more so all those bolts came out easily.

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Bill R

07-27-2003 23:17:21

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Re: Darn Square nuts/bolts! in reply to G. L. Perry, 07-27-2003 20:20:31

Great thing about the gas ratchet is that it fits every size nut you might come across...SAE, metric...whatever. Just used it this afternoon to loosen a piece of 1"x1" steel from itself. Didn't even have to use PB Blaster.

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earlschieb

07-27-2003 20:41:09

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Re: Darn Square nuts/bolts! in reply to G. L. Perry, 07-27-2003 20:20:31

I have found one wrench in particular that works really well on them, it is called a 'blue tip wrench', works wonders with square head bolts.

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Dave_Id

07-27-2003 21:28:25

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Re: Re: Darn Square nuts/bolts! in reply to earlschieb, 07-27-2003 20:41:09

.....also know as the "hot wrench". I use it all the time with square nuts. I don't mind them at all.

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bob

07-28-2003 09:19:12

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Re: Re: Re: Darn Square nuts/bolts! in reply to Dave_Id, 07-27-2003 21:28:25

Fire wrench as well.

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rustyfarmall

07-27-2003 21:33:12

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Re: Re: Re: Darn Square nuts/bolts! in reply to Dave_Id, 07-27-2003 21:28:25

Also known as a gas hatchet, works every time.

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Jason - Senoia, GA

07-28-2003 18:11:50

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Darn Square nuts/bolts! in reply to rustyfarmall, 07-27-2003 21:33:12

The good old "smoke wrench".

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Tim

07-28-2003 00:00:44

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Darn Square nuts/bolts! in reply to rustyfarmall, 07-27-2003 21:33:12

But you have to keep the square bolts and nuts to keep a tractor or implement original. They are a little harder to work with but sure make the old stuff worth more to a collector. If it helps snap on does have the sockets for the square bolts and nuts.

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Dale

07-27-2003 21:46:13

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Darn Square nuts/bolts! in reply to rustyfarmall, 07-27-2003 21:33:12

Where do you get them? Only thing I've found is a small pipe wrench if I can get it in.

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Slowpoke

07-29-2003 01:36:52

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Darn Square nuts/bolts! in reply to Dale, 07-27-2003 21:46:13

Check Flea Markets, auctions, and country yard sales. I picked up several 1/2" drive Plumb square sockets, the largest is 7/8.

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