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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Lead substitutes and old tractors?

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upnorty

08-31-2003 11:49:14




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I have been told that the older gas tractors were manufactured in a manner that makes lead substitutes unnecessary. I admit to being totally ignorant as to the accuracy of this claim. Any opinions?




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Earl

09-06-2003 05:05:31




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 Re: Lead substitutes and old tractors? in reply to upnorty, 08-31-2003 11:49:14  
I'm inclined more to the mechanical opnions than the conspiracy theories.
While lead is used as a lubricant, more often than not, antique tractors are not used enough to substatially degrade from the lack of lead in their fuel. I used to use the additives in my antique cars and then decided to put in hardened valves and seats instead. It was much cheaper and by far more effective in the long haul. If this tractor is a regularly used machine (everday), put a bottle in every 5th tank. If it is more of an occasional use and showpiece, do it when you remember to.
Regardless of the above approaches, your end goal should be the hardened valve and seat replacement.

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Robert

09-02-2003 11:16:16




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 Re: Lead substitutes and old tractors? in reply to upnorty, 08-31-2003 11:49:14  
My take on pretty much most of the additives available over the counter are designed to do little more than separate you from your money. (I've been separated more than once, over the years LOL).
The "octane booster" doesn't improve performance nor does it eleminate preignition, "transmission overhaul" in a can won't do the trick, and the engine overhaul" in a package won't rebuild your engine either.
Like others have said, the lead substitute won't make enough difference to worry about, or justify the cost.

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use ATF

08-31-2003 19:22:49




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 Re: Lead substitutes and old tractors? in reply to upnorty, 08-31-2003 11:49:14  
"Big Daddy" Don Gartlis(sp?), a big name in drag racing in the '70's, used to have a syndicated automotive column. He advocated using about 4 ounces/10 gallons gas or so of auto trany fluid in gas engines as a top cylinder lubricant. He claimed to use it in a big block Dodge he pulled his dragster with and said it helped the valves some. If you used your tractor a lot it might help, if you are worried about the valves. Otherwise, most 'collector' tractors don't get that much use.

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Don LC

08-31-2003 15:20:22




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 Re: Lead substitutes and old tractors? in reply to upnorty, 08-31-2003 11:49:14  
Several years ago I used "lead subsitute" in every older engine I had ---- I bought it by the case...It gummed up carbarators,pluged up in line filters.....I got discusted and quit using it altogeather....I am still running these engines.....cant see any change in the performance of any of them....wish I had my money back.....



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ATW/WA

08-31-2003 12:23:34




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 Re: Lead substitutes and old tractors? in reply to upnorty, 08-31-2003 11:49:14  
You are correct, there is no requirement or need for so called lead subistitues in older tractors. Your $$$$ would be better spent on other necessities for the tractor ie. oil, lube, beer, filters and manuals.

ATW/WA



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Upnorty

08-31-2003 12:26:20




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 Re: Re: Lead substitutes and old tractors? in reply to ATW/WA , 08-31-2003 12:23:34  
Thank you!



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paul

08-31-2003 12:30:53




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 Re: Re: Re: Lead substitutes and old tractors? in reply to Upnorty, 08-31-2003 12:26:20  
The only thing lead helped was valve seat wear. You are far $$$$ ahead putting $500 aside for a good valve job with hardened seats when the time comes (can be thousands of hours), than to spend $750 on substitutes that still let the valves wear down..... ..

--->Paul



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Steve - IN

08-31-2003 13:14:36




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Lead substitutes and old tractors? in reply to paul, 08-31-2003 12:30:53  
Paul is right about the valve seats.
Old tractors don't have nearly enough compression ratio to required higher octane gas (which once used lead to achieve higher octance).

The only benefit to lead additives is to reduce the temperature between the valve and the valve seat to prevent "micro welding" which wears down the seat in old cast heads.

As Paul says, don't spend your money on lead additives, hardened seats are a much more certain fix. One more trick to forestall the head work of installing hardened valve seats is to run a turn or two rich -- thereby lowering ignition temps at the sacrifice of a bit of performance -- to save the seats. Along with that trick you have to move up a heat range or two in plugs to avoid plug fouling. Other guys will say you get the same effect by pouring in 2 stroke oil in a 60:1 or 80:1 ratio to cool the exhaust valve to valve seat contact area, while running leaner to get a bit more performance at normal plug heat ranges. Don't know if anyone has any conclusive A/B comparison results on the above -- but you should have enough enough info to avoid wasting money on lead subs, and to give you some idea of tradeoffs involved.

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bob

09-01-2003 05:52:58




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lead substitutes and old tract in reply to Steve - IN, 08-31-2003 13:14:36  
I'm not too sure that it was a matter of running cooler, but rather that the lead acts as a lubricant between the valve and seat as they close. While we don't normally think of lead as a lubricant, consider those lead washers that are used under the head nuts of the two-cylinder Deeres. They are there primarily to insure that the nut doesn't seize on the head surface, insuring that they can be tightened to the proper torque.

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dctom

08-31-2003 18:24:21




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lead substitutes and old tract in reply to Steve - IN, 08-31-2003 13:14:36  
I have done that little diesel fuel or 2 cycle oil in gas about like he says, helps horse power also, i use 2 cyicle oil in my pulling DC all the time, 2 cycle oil wont seperate when sits long time where diesel fuel will tom



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