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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

1958 D8H vs. Northern Ontario

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Cliff from Onta

09-03-2003 17:55:14




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Greetings, this is our first visit to your site. We have an opportunity to purchase a 1958 Caterpillar D8H with many, many hours on it (who really knows how many times the clock has turned over). It's attributes are that it has been working steadily until just this spring and is being offered for sale because the vendor is upgrading to newer equipment. It's been suggested that the "pads" will need replacing soon and "the undercarriage isn't great". We intend to use it on our 160 acre farm in Northern Ontario to clean up a previously cleared 25 acres in the front and over the years, blaze a few trails through our part of the Boreal forest. Unfortunately, half the land was logged 12 years ago and a multitude of poplars have sprung up. Virtually useless, from our perspective. We've read the previous postings on using the D8 to clear land using a "rake" on the front. I have been certified on all heavy equipment and would sincerely look forward to the challenge of cleaning up our own land. I already have a friend that knows how to weld, if replacing the undercarriage with something more bulletproof, is an option. I'm thinking that I could probably turn a dollar or two with it when I'm done, working for someone else. The front of the acreage has grown over the past 3 years with tag alders, but seems to have some grazing or crop potential. The dozer is somewhat rusty, but seems that a bit of TLC would go a long way. The tracks, idlers and sprockets seem to be alright. The asking price is $14,500 CAN and with no experience in purchasing heavy equipment, we're totally open to input and suggestions. My biggest concern is that we get a great deal on a dozer and can't find a $3 part to keep it running, because of its age. Thank you for your input, in advance, from just another polite Canadian.

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Cliff again

09-07-2003 09:28:44




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 Re: 1958 D8H vs. Northern Ontario in reply to Cliff from Ontario, 09-03-2003 17:55:14  
Armed with tons of great advice and guidance, we went and took another look at the D8H and asked a LOT of questions. The reason for selling is upgrading and tax write offs. The current owner has used it for about 10 years. The bushings under the top of the tracks have NOT been turned around yet and are only showing slight wear on the bottom. It has 41 sections and 7 rollers, which I was told is better than 6. One sprocket is starting to sharpen up on the teeth, but the other one still has "flats" on top. CAT mechanics did the hydraulic hose "recall" repair to prevent the operator from burning up when the hose pops. All drain plugs still have the magnets firmly attached. With the rollers on the bottom of the tracks, one side is all good and the other side needs two replaced with other "used" units. The brake steering clutches seem to be fine, as during our test drive, the D8H turned smoothly in both directions in all 3 gears. It has no ROPS, but with personal use on flat land on a farm, I shouldn't need it. I've talked to a number of CAT reps and have been told that parts are not a problem, between OEM CAT, CAT Classic, Nexus and used. I also found out that a neighbour of his is snapping the machine up on Tuesday of this week. If I want it, I can have it for CAN$12,000. on Monday or, how you say, you snooze - you lose. I must add that I'm NOT only intending to clear a few acres, but as much of the 160 acres as possible, including roads to get to it. In my perfect world, I would also use it to hollow out a bit of a trout lake and use the removed material as base for our new house, to deal with soppy property in the spring. Once the lake is done, I've already made friends with someone at a fish hatchery... yeehaa!! Is it still a bad idea?

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Rod F.

09-08-2003 21:09:05




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 Re: Re: 1958 D8H vs. Northern Ontario in reply to Cliff again, 09-07-2003 09:28:44  
Yes, it's still a bad deal in my opinion. Sounds like you have you heart set on it though. I would strongly suggest that you hire a mechanic for a few hours (somebody you trust) to go over the beast and check everything out. It would be money well invested if you are very serious about the machine. Track work is pretty straight forward, but gets expensive. That tractor is likely cheap for a reason, and $12000 CAD is a pittance on the price of a new one. I just saw a D8 10k (1978 I think)in the Atlantic Truck Trader for something like $125000 CAD, with lots of new parts, and ready to work. That may give you an idea of what an old 8 is worth. Also for forestry work, for your own safety you should have a canopy, back screen, and sweeps. The machine needs to be guarded, for you protection. Knock down a dead spar, the top breaks back on your head, and you're dead if you don't have protective structure. Again I will suggest a smaller machine. My experience is on a D4H, which is a 90 hp, 12 ton class machine. Roughly equal to a 5c or 5d. Most of my time has been spent clearing land similar to what you describe, and we have done well over 100 acres with the 4. It is too light for large hardwood, if they are freshly cut, but after a few years, the stumps come out easily. An agile machine with good hydraulics is a lot more useful for the type of work we do. I would suggest that the 8 is neither. If you have no experience clearing land, it is very important to realise that it is quite a different operation than straight dozing or road building. You will likely want to pile and burn the trees/stumps. They must be piled clean and free of dirt. It's not a matter of dropping the blade and pushing. Need a good root rake, usually just using the corner to see what you are doing. My D4 seldom works hard at that, and one acre often takes between 10 -15 hours to complete. I've seen faster, I've seen cheaper, but I haven't seen a fast, cheap, GOOD job. Going rate around these parts is about $1000 /acre, give or take. Popular machines are Cat D-6's, International TD-15, Case 1150, Komatsu D-65, etc. I realise this post is now quite long, but I hate to see someone make a mistake, and in all sincerity, I think this D-8 is a walk past. Add up what you know it needs, with the purchase price, and you probably have a good D-5 or D-6. Take care, and good luck.

Rod in N.S.

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oldfart

09-05-2003 00:20:04




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 Re: 1958 D8H vs. Northern Ontario in reply to Cliff from Ontario, 09-03-2003 17:55:14  
Cliff, if you go look at that crawler again feel up under the pads where the links of the tracks are.If the round pipe looking [bushing] part is wore on the top side next to the pad they have allready been turned. And if the they are worn on the surface that goes against the sprocket also check for spots where they are through the bushing and the pin is showing. Also if you are really serious all the drain plus on the finals should have mangets to collect metal. Would be a mess to try pull them and stop the grease while you check them but would be a good idea. Also does this machine have full protection underneath rockguards as well as a good canopy on top. A firure we used was $75.per acre to run down and pile popple trees in the winter just for an idea of cost to clean up your acreage. Just my thoughts, good luck to you and have a good weekend from northern Minnesota.

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old fart

09-05-2003 00:18:34




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 Re: 1958 D8H vs. Northern Ontario in reply to Cliff from Ontario, 09-03-2003 17:55:14  
Cliff, if you go look at that crawler again feel up under the pads where the links of the tracks are.If the round pipe looking [bushing] part is wore on the top side next to the pad they have allready been turned. And if the they are worn on the surface that goes against the sprocket also check for spots where they are through the bushing and the pin is showing. Also if you are really serious all the drain plus on the finals should have mangets to collect metal. Would be a mess to try pull them and stop the grease while you check them but would be a good idea. Also does this machine have full protection underneath rockguards as well as a good canopy on top. A firure we used was $75.per acre to run down and pile popple trees in the winter just for an idea of cost to clean up your acreage. Just my thoughts, good luck to you and have a good weekend from northern Minnesota.

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olfdfart

09-05-2003 00:05:23




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 Re: 1958 D8H vs. Northern Ontario in reply to Cliff from Ontario, 09-03-2003 17:55:14  
Cliff, a D-8h for that kind of money sounds dangerous, too cheap to be in good condition. Have owned a d8h-36a and it was a good horse but I knew the previous owner and condition. The boys are correct on suggesting taking a alternative purchase. If a older crawler is in your definite plans lok around for a D-7-17a series. Real good crawler for its day. Your welder buddy is a good friend to have but the mechanic is the real spendy one to call. Good luck and go fishing for a day and ponder this purchase.

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JMS/MN

09-04-2003 20:51:46




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 Re: 1958 D8H vs. Northern Ontario in reply to Cliff from Ontario, 09-03-2003 17:55:14  
My boss, excavating contractor, bought a 40 years old D8 this spring. First problem was in the transmission, two weeks into a road job. Last week we put on new tracks with old pads, rollers, idlers. $12,000. Others give good advice, smaller machine is appropriate. Big old stuff is fine until something breaks- then they are money pits.



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Rod F.

09-04-2003 20:31:27




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 Re: 1958 D8H vs. Northern Ontario in reply to Cliff from Ontario, 09-03-2003 17:55:14  
Well, the D8 being a CAT, every part will be supported. That said, you still don't want the old girl. Undercarridge, big money. Any break downs, big money. That said, a D8 is way too much machine for cleaning up that kind of garbage. You say the area grew up in alders. Think about this. To root that stuff out, you need a good rake, it's a lot of back an forth, basically working the corner of the blade to see what you are doing. The machine isn't even remotely working, except that it has a huge carridge, big engine, and a lot of dead weight to drag around. You don't need a D8 to push alders, and I'll bet dollars for donoughts, a D4 or D5 would do just as much or more in a day, on way less fuel, and way lower operating costs. I say this with experience. I have a D4H, which works very well for exactly what you describe. The D4 is light for large hardwood stumps, but everything else is a piece of cake. The 4 is handy around the farm too. Myself, I would look for an excavator, say a 215 or so, with a thumb, a dozer (4, 5, or 6), or hire the job out. The backhoe would be a waste of time on that job, in my opinion, but hand to have no less. The 8 is for sale for a reason. Don't walk, run! Again, just my opinion.

Rod

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Dale

09-04-2003 19:23:38




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 Re: 1958 D8H vs. Northern Ontario in reply to Cliff from Ontario, 09-03-2003 17:55:14  
Cliff, by the time you spend that much on the dozer, then throw in fuel, parts and your own time, you could hire somebody to clear your 25 acres 2 or 3 times over. We had about 15 acres cleared 3 years ago, this was an old sugar bush that hadn't been tapped in 30 years and you could barely walk through it. Big excavator took all the big trees down in a day, we went in and cut the stumps off and skidded out the logs, then two days with a big dozer and root rake cleared up the rest including the big rocks. Total cost was less then $5000. Having your own equipment is nice, but somebody that's been using the same machine for 10 years can do 10 times the work in an hour.

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Chas in Tn.

09-04-2003 13:08:44




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 Re: 1958 D8H vs. Northern Ontario in reply to Cliff from Ontario, 09-03-2003 17:55:14  
Alot of people think, now there's a machine sitting over there that probally hasen't been used much...boy! could you be wrong. My father owned 5 of these machines, then went to larger D9H and so on. in the coal minning country of Kentucky and Tennessee. I grew up with D8H's, good machines in their days. You can't stand the cost of breakdowns. Spend the $14 thousand elsewhere my friend.



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Farmer John

09-04-2003 11:59:20




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 Re: 1958 D8H vs. Northern Ontario in reply to Cliff from Ontario, 09-03-2003 17:55:14  
Cliff, Do yourself a big favor and forget the D8. It will milk you dry and you'll eventually go broke trying to keep it up. If u must spend 14 thousand then buy yourself a backhoe. Here in the states, 14k will buy a real nice 580B Case hoe. you can do a lot more with a hoe than a dozer. Oh of course it will not be as fast on the heavy stuff as the dozer but in the end it will be more usefull and can easily generate profit by using it on jobs away from home. Been there and done that! I am more happy with my hoe than I ever was with my old dozer.

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john

09-04-2003 00:01:35




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 Re: 1958 D8H vs. Northern Ontario in reply to Cliff from Ontario, 09-03-2003 17:55:14  
a D8H with a root rake is a great machine for clearing land. (we use a D6 as a D8 will not stand up on our soft ground) cat still has parts available for most older machines as these machines are so expensive to replace. you say you have a friend who welds to beef up the undercarrige. the undercarrige as it is called is not skid plates or such. when they talk about undercarrige they mean the heart and soul of the machine. the tracks; sprockets ect... ( the transmission or rear end you could say) this is the MOST EXPENSIVE part of the machine.in fact most companys I have worked for buy a machine new run it as long as they can repairing minor undercarrige problems as they go and then sell when the undercarrige is shot. they would rather replace the motor than get into a major undercarrige job. in fact cat is top of the line in my book and is great as long as it is running and will out last others BUT as the saying goes you better own the bank when it breaks.Just call the local cat dealer a tell him you need to replace the undercarrige on a D8 and ask for a round about figure just for parts and you will see what I mean.
I would think long and hard before buying as it can be a great money pit.look at it from the sellers point of view. he is spending mega bucks to replace this machine because "the pads and undercarrige isn't great". newer USED machines can cost over a hundred thousand dollars.
It can be fixed and may be worth the money as I have not seen the machine. JUST PLEASE DO YOUR HOME WORK BEFORE YOU BUY!!!! with this size machine you are moving into the major league and major bill may come with that.
JUST MY 2 CENTS
JOHN in louisiana

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720Deere

09-03-2003 18:22:05




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 Re: 1958 D8H vs. Northern Ontario in reply to Cliff from Ontario, 09-03-2003 17:55:14  
An undercarriage for a D8 can run up to and above $25,000 U.S. There is still great support in way of parts from CAT. If the undercarriage is pretty well shot(the pins have been turned and worn down again and the rails about gone) then it would probably be tough to break even let alone turn a profit. You may get away with new sprockets (or sprocket segments, not sure which was used in 58')for what you intend to do.

The D8H was and still is a great machine. They can also be 35 tons of money pit if you don't know what your getting into!

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