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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

strange objects in cylinders

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John Zmurchyk

10-20-2003 11:51:58




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Hello there.

I was just wondering if anybody out there has noticed unusual items in the cylinders after prying the head of an old seized up tractor. This weekend I pulled the head off of my massey harris 55 diesel. the water jackets were full of mouse nest, and feathers. In one cylinder there was a birds skull. no other bones or skeletal structure, just the skuul and beak. I wonder how it got in there?

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Jailkeeper

10-21-2003 20:29:22




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 Re: strange objects in cylinders in reply to John Zmurchyk, 10-20-2003 11:51:58  
I took the head off an old Toyota pickup that was running really bad. The intake valve had broken off and was embedded in the top of the piston.

Same thing happeded on a Detroit 8V92. Broke a valve and sent it through the turbo, parts went everywhere. That was the first and last time I ever rebuilt a Detroit. I hate those things. They don't call'em "screamin' green leakers" for nothing!!



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MapleStone

10-21-2003 05:43:59




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 Re: strange objects in cylinders in reply to John Zmurchyk, 10-20-2003 11:51:58  
To follow along with the "missing piston" stories.

My cousin bought a Massey 44 that was sitting in a field but would run. He finished the deal and showed up the next day to pick up the tractor. The old guy came out of the house and handed him a piston. Told my cousin it was #4 piston and that we would need it if he wanted to fix the tractor. My cousin quite confused asked for explanation. Seems the rod broke or something and sinse they were old and had no money the simply removed the piston. Used the tractor for a few years that way. The old boy said "she ran a little rough and didn't have the power she used to, but she still run."

Cousin started the tractor, drove it on the trailer and brought it home.

Ended up swappin the engine for another rather than rebuilding.

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Bindernut

10-20-2003 22:26:48




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 Re: strange objects in cylinders in reply to John Zmurchyk, 10-20-2003 11:51:58  
Last weekend I found a wasp nest in the bottom of the oil cup on my H's air cleaner. It was full of oil. Told dad, and he said his dad always kept oil in it(grandpa bought it used in 1960) Talk about odd. Bindernut



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Rufus Windrow

10-20-2003 18:25:55




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 Re: strange objects in cylinders in reply to John Zmurchyk, 10-20-2003 11:51:58  
Yer probably not gonna believe this but back in 1926, Festus Grimes pulled apart the power plant on his YKW (you know what) tractor and lo and behold, there was nothing inside at all, just a big old empty cast engine frame on the outside. It had worked fine up until then and he only took it apart to try to find his wife's false teeth that had somehow fallen into the turnbuckle adjuster when she coughed while cranking the engine. Nobody could ever figure out how or why that engine ran like it did. He just bolted it back together and it ran perfectly until WWII when it was melted down for scrap iron.

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Frank M.

10-21-2003 17:46:32




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 Re: Re: strange objects in cylinders in reply to Rufus Windrow, 10-20-2003 18:25:55  
Come on, you've got to finish the story. The suspense is killin me. Did they ever find her teeth?



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tom

10-21-2003 09:15:17




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 Re: Re: strange objects in cylinders in reply to Rufus Windrow, 10-20-2003 18:25:55  
This web needs to add a liers forum. make sure there is a potbelly stove and some rocking chairs. I have a lot of fun hearing these stores.



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Joe (Wa)

10-20-2003 22:14:30




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 Re: Re: strange objects in cylinders in reply to Rufus Windrow, 10-20-2003 18:25:55  
Well I believe you Rufus cuz I know ya ain't one to stretch the truth. BTW are ya still up in the Yukon logging banana timber above the treeline? Joe



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Rufus Woodrow

10-21-2003 05:36:12




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 Re: Re: Re: strange objects in cylinders in reply to Joe (Wa), 10-20-2003 22:14:30  
Not there anymore. The market for bananna timber went south when the current rage for hardwood flooring took over in the housing market. Bananna timber ended up being much too slippery for the average person, plus the fact that the bananna wood was far too yellowy in color for todays designer paint codes to match. As a result, I'm salvaging old Caterpillar parts along the right-of-way on the old Canol pipeline between Norman Wells and Skagway.

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MikeH-Tx

10-20-2003 20:01:40




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 Re: Re: strange objects in cylinders in reply to Rufus Windrow, 10-20-2003 18:25:55  
You are right.

I'm not going to believe this...



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Wayne

10-20-2003 18:24:37




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 Re: strange objects in cylinders in reply to John Zmurchyk, 10-20-2003 11:51:58  
Dad watched Grandpa take one piston out of an old 4 cylinder, I believe he said it was in a in something like a Model T, and plugged the piston hole with a oak plug and kept on running it. Yes your gonna lose some oil pressure like one post said, but recommended pressure on most engines is 10 psi per 1000RPM so on a normal engine that isn't reving the limit all the time, and has a good oil pump, what you loose from the one rod not being in place doesn't make that much difference.

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Allan

10-20-2003 20:25:30




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 Re: Re: strange objects in cylinders in reply to Wayne, 10-20-2003 18:24:37  
Hi Wayne,

That old "T" (as with most engines of the day) used 'scoopers' on the rods for lube. So an oil loss out of a cross-drilled crank didn't happen. That rod just 'dipped' into the puddle of oil in the pan.

Yes, Grandpa certainly could have plugged one hole and got away with it on that style engine.

However, on modern day engines, oil pressure and engine lube is set by the pump pushing oil thru the crankshaft main bearings, 'across' the rod bearing surfaces, and then to the camshaft bearing surfaces; and all the while working against an oil pressure spring loaded regulator plug.

So, with one rod off, the resultant effect would be "0" pressure, lube starvation and an immediate failure (roughly 45 minutes).

Allan

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Wayne

10-21-2003 21:19:39




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 Re: Re: Re: strange objects in cylinders in reply to Allan, 10-20-2003 20:25:30  
Hey Allan, I didn't realize the old T's were splash lubed, I learned something new tonight...Thanks
As far as dropping pressure completly because of one oil hole being open I know it's possible, and even probable in most cases especially on high RPM gasoline engines. Like I said though, if the oil pump is in good shape, it shouldn't cause anything but a big loss in pressure. I have seen a 6-71 Detroit that was run for something like 2 weeks, and was still running when Dad went to look at it, with the crank broke on a main journal and the bearing all but gone on that one journal leaving a huge gap. With the bearing "gone", yes not just wiped, but wiped until the bearing shell was paper thin so there was probably a 1/16 gap. This was a large enough gap to drop all pressure from that journal, but it was still holding between 25 and 30psi at full throttle of 2100 RPM, plenty enough for the 10psi per 1000 RPM giude. The journal didn't have a straight brake, it had a stepped area that kept driving the other half, and except for the loss of pressure and a slight vibration, the operator didn't notice any problems with the way his crane was running, and it wasn't even overheating believe it or not. I know this may sound far fetched, but I gave up a long time ago sayying something isn't possible when it comes to equipment. It seems like everytime I think I've seen it all I see something else that "Just shouldn't happen".... but it does. It makes me wonder sometime.....

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RAB

10-21-2003 09:45:34




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 Re: Re: Re: strange objects in cylinders in reply to Allan, 10-20-2003 20:25:30  
With a modern day engine I doubt it would last that long. Probably so much out of balance that it would screw the crank in next to no time!



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Hal/WA

10-20-2003 23:13:20




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 Re: Re: Re: strange objects in cylinders in reply to Allan, 10-20-2003 20:25:30  
When I was a kid, some friends of mine had a 40-something Chevy car they drove around in the woods. One time they broke a piston that mostly landed in the oil pan in pieces. They stopped it before the rod and piston destroyed the block and towed it to the barn. They dropped the pan and hacksawed off the big end of the rod and took the rest of the rod and the broken piston out. They put the oil pan back on, removed the push rods from that cylinder and drove the Chevy all over that mountain for at least 2 more years. It didn't have quite as much power as an inline 5, but really didn't seem too out of balance or even sound like it was missing too bad. I think they only quit driving it because they graduated from high school. Fun times!

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Allan

10-21-2003 03:27:24




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: strange objects in cylinders in reply to Hal/WA, 10-20-2003 23:13:20  
Hi Hal,

Yep, I can believe that. Those old Chevys didn't have oil pumps until, what? 1954 or something like that.

By taking out the push rods and leaving the 'big end' of the rod on the crank, those boys just took that hole out of the equation. Kind of clever, really.

Allan



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rustyfarmall

10-20-2003 17:14:45




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 Re: strange objects in cylinders in reply to John Zmurchyk, 10-20-2003 11:51:58  
Found mud dauber nests in the cylinders of an I-4, not too surprising considering it sat for 20 years without spark plugs. More recently, tearing down a salvaged M engine, found a huge mouse nest in the oil pan, the nest would more than fill a 5 quart pail, oil pan was bolted tight to engine, drain plug was in place.



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CWL

10-21-2003 06:27:36




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 Re: Re: strange objects in cylinders in reply to rustyfarmall, 10-20-2003 17:14:45  
That mouse had a fortress built in that M engine!



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John

10-20-2003 16:29:09




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 Re: strange objects in cylinders in reply to John Zmurchyk, 10-20-2003 11:51:58  
When I lived on Eastern Long Island, I heard a local story about an old man who had bought a new 1957 Ford V-8. It was the first V-8 engine he had ever owned. After driving the car for some 12 years, he took it in for it`s first tune-up. After running out of ideas to get it to run smooth, they removed one of the heads and found that one piston and rod had never been installed in the engine.The old man said that he never knew that there was anything wrong because the car still had much more power than anything he had owned in the past.

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jake

10-21-2003 06:15:18




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 Re: Re: strange objects in cylinders in reply to John, 10-20-2003 16:29:09  
After dealing with the local Ford mechanics I'm suprised the main power wasn't a rubber band.



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Allan

10-20-2003 17:59:01




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 Re: Re: strange objects in cylinders in reply to John, 10-20-2003 16:29:09  
John,

Nice tale; but it is only a coffee table story.

Without a bucket in the hole, an engine would push oil like no tomorrow.

Plus, it would have "0" oil pressure; and shake!! Talk about a badly balanced engine. :>)

Funny story tho,

Allan



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Kelvin

10-20-2003 16:58:49




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 Re: Re: strange objects in cylinders in reply to John, 10-20-2003 16:29:09  
An old Chevy mechanic told a similar story-Dealer sold Chevy pickup with 454 engine. Ran slightly rough, but plenty of power. About 6 months later it developed a water leak into the crankcase. When taken apart there was a connecting rod in one cylinder, but no piston. the rod had worn through the cylinder wall and that's what caused the leak.



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Steve (Magnolia, TX)

10-20-2003 13:15:38




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 Re: strange objects in cylinders in reply to John Zmurchyk, 10-20-2003 11:51:58  
I found the head of a piston....


Steve



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Steve (Magnolia, TX)

10-20-2003 14:02:43




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 Re: Re: strange objects in cylinders in reply to Steve (Magnolia, TX), 10-20-2003 13:15:38  
You know, coming back and re-reading this sounds like I was trying to be a smart-a__... Not so. The strange part was that there wasn't a skirt (or wrist-pin or connecting rod) connected to the piston head... #1 cylinder of a '50 8N... and it had run (granted poorly) for about 6 months this way...

Steve

P.S. This has since been rectified.. :-)



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Chris Brown

10-20-2003 17:01:11




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 Re: Re: Re: strange objects in cylinders in reply to Steve (Magnolia, TX), 10-20-2003 14:02:43  
I pulled apart a 300 six ford pickup and two piston skirts were gone ,crunched up in the pan. I had driven it 10,000 miles that way .It had always had a little piston slap noise but not bad.



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