FLAT RATE - is it fair ?

Another screwing a guy can get is when two repairs are done at the same time in the same area. In some repairs of this type I suspect we are paying for two disassemblies and two reassemblies, even though only one was done for the two repairs. Can any of you guys out there shed some light on this for me?

So is flat rate fair? On the average, it is; in some isolated circumstances, NO. But it evens out. If the shop is honest with you, and the technicians are competent and helpful--the best techs often will come out and discuss the repairs afterwards with the customer, rather than risk having some of the information lost in translation by sometimes not-technically-minded service advisors (remember, the service advisor's primary job is to SELL; to the customer, he's selling repairs, while to the dealership, he's selling their available hours)--then stay with someone you trust. Occasionally, you might pay more, but the peace of mind in knowing that the job's being done right should make this a good trade-off.

If you can find a good, honest mechanic, give him your business and recommend him to others. Whether he charges flat rate or not.

I respectfully disagree. Quite the opposite is true, because if the job bounces, the tech has to eat the comeback out of his own pocket. He never wants to see that job again, because it will cost him money.

I think what you are talking about is the question of: does he go the extra mile? No, because he does not get paid for it and he can't afford to. However, a good tech will always correct the problem.

Example: A truck comes in for a leak at the water pump. The book pays him 8 tenths of an hour to replace the pump and the new pump is not painted. Is he going to stop and paint that new pump? Nope, it would cost him time and money; and, from an operational point of view, paint does not make any difference. He is only paid to correct the problem; therefore your engine is going to get an unpainted water pump.

I agree however, find a good tech and stick with him. Tell everyone you can tell about this guy.

But, here is a lightning bolt for you:

Only 1 in 100 really know what they are doing. They rest are all guessing, they are "parts replacement experts" and they are gambling with your money. A customer should never have to pay for the same job twice (EVER!), nor should he have to pay for any un-needed, “trail and error” parts and labor. In this case, find another man.

Look for the tech with the grey hair. He’s been there and he knows what he is doing. :>)

Just my opinion,

Allan

Wow!! What a mouthful!

How many of those front seals did you have to eat before GM found out that they had a design flaw in the pump? We should have guessed what was coming when the trucks wouldn't even back off the transports when new.

How about those stumbling, hesitating, dying wimpy little 305s? Weren't those a fun kick in the pants?

And that broken head bolt on that little 4-pop iron-maiden? Always the same bolt. Yes, those are some bad memories.

But, ya know what my friend? We endured, we learned and we worked around it and now in a lot of ways, we are the better for it.

It still makes me feel good when I can diagnose a broken sun-gear shell over the phone just by the customer's symptoms.

Or, explain to the shade-tree(er) that timing has absolutely nothing to do with his 250 6-cylinder dieseling after shut down.

We can honestly say that we've been there and we've done that. But, I'd be damned if I'd ever do it again. The tech is at the bottom of the food-chain, no matter from which angle you look at it.

Regards,

Allan

When I was at the GM shop a transport load of IROZ Camaros pulled up while the factory rep was there and I said "well heres another truckload of warranty work". Yep it was interesting but I don't miss it a bit. I do a lot of long distance diagnosing for my dad and brother in Montana. He had his old 4X4 GMC 292 into several shops and couldn't make it run any better. I told him about the tin plate under the carb between the int/ex manifold over the phone and it cured that one.

I've worked flat rate all my life....it is as fair as it is going to get.

Having said that, there are some problem areas.

Foremost of these is the customers understanding of how the system works. I think instead of calling it "hours", they should call it something different, like say, 'units'.

Here's how it works: The book says that an overhaul on an automaic transmission in a GMC Yukon should take 7.9 hours and it should take the tech and additonal 3.8 hours to R&R the silly thing.

That's the end of it; the customer should be billed 11.7 hours, whether the tech can pull it off in 8 hours or if it takes him 27.0 hours. The customer still pays that original 11.7 hours like the "Bible" says.

So, young Billy Bob Wrench does the job, he hasn't been doing this very long, and he screws up. He has to pull the thing again and reopen it. He spends 3 days on the thing and finally gets it correct.

He has lost his shirt because the customer still only gets billed that original 11.7 hours. After about 6 months of this, it dawns on young Billy he really should get good, or get out. He can't live on 2 days pay per week.

Now, take the guy who has been doing this all his adult life. He has learned these things inside out and knows all the little shortcuts to make the job go easier. He knows which tools to grab and knows each and every step he has to make. He knows what is wrong with the unit before he lifts a wrench because he has done 1000 of these repairs before. So, let's say then, he can do it in 5 hours.

He is making money because the customer still pays that original 11.7 hours.

What the term 'flat rate means' is: as far as the customer is concerned, is that "this" particular job should take "this" long to do, based upon a long, long history of this repair.

You speak of "extra time". This is usually only allowed in very small shops and then only after the customer gives his 'okay'. It is, really, kinda rare to see this practice.

As an aside: Also, there is the problem of diagnosing. Some pay it, some don't.

I worked for GM, who didn't. So, you learn very fast to know what is wrong with a mechanical system before you ever open it up. Time is money, and you can't afford to waste time.

Allan

It was a rinky dink marina, had a Handi-House for a shop, if it rained, you were rigging a poncho over your head to work in it.

I'd get paid 30 minutes to R&R an outdrive unit, but the old nasty stuff we got in always had seized bolts, etc. on it so I never made it. Also, we had NO WORK so after taking home a whopping 18 hour paycheck one week (no benefits, either) I quit.

I later learned that the manual he based his rates he paid me on was the WARRANTY guide which very specifically states the rates are based on new equipment in a organized shop. And it says to add "X" amount of time if excessive corrision was present.

I think it's a good deal customer wise to pay flat rate- and really, if you think you are getting hosed because you paid 12 hours of labor and the tech finished it in ten, go to place that charges time and material- believe me- you'll come out ahead to go to the flat rate outfit, it's really the only way you'll know how much it will cost ya.

Eric