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Pole barn

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Slofr8

11-29-2003 19:39:54

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Hi everyone,
I'm in need of some storage place on some property I own. I'm thinking of putting up a pole construction, 24 by 30 or 32. Three walls with the opening on the south side.
Three questions,
~I have some spruce that I can use but also have a lot of quaking aspen. Would the aspen be OK to use?

~How many poles, do I need to build this? I'm in northern Maine with considerable snow fall.

~What size poles?

Thanks in advance!! Dan.

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Slofr8

12-01-2003 16:39:57

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Re: Pole barn in reply to Slofr8, 11-29-2003 19:39:54

Thanks for all the replies!!
OK, poplar is out. OSB plant 50 miles away is paying $80 a cord laitly for that stuff. I have about 35 acres of it. Wish I had a way to yard it out. Price is right but timing is wrong. Story of my life!!
I'll keep my eyes peeled for some old phone poles this winter and if nothing turns up I'll buy some treated posts next spring. I'll try it with one open side but if too much snow comes in I'll hang some felt that I can get from a local paper mill. It dosn't have to be too pretty. Won't be seen from the road. Just a place to put an old tractor, brush hog, chainsaws, plow in the summer and canoe in the winter. Happy holidays, and Thanks again!!
Dan.

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MarkB

11-30-2003 19:55:03

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Re: Pole barn in reply to Slofr8, 11-29-2003 19:39:54

Poplar has zero rot resistance; spruce isn't much better. Get pressure treated posts for this project.

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Shane

11-30-2003 13:55:35

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Re: Pole barn in reply to Slofr8, 11-29-2003 19:39:54

Around here the standard is to place the poles every 8', and we get some decent snowfall too. Use treated poles or telephone poles! You may be able to use the spruce or aspen as the nailer boards, been told that cottonwood can be used for nailers as long as it doesnt get wet. This is assuming you have a mill to make the 2x4 nailers with anyways, which means you will have to allow it to dry out for several months. I would personally totally enclose the whole structure, the wind seems to go up and then right in the open ended buildings, some sort of vacuum pulls the wind and snow right in about 15 feet or more. Good luck.

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Robert in W. Mi

11-30-2003 15:15:04

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Re: Re: Pole barn in reply to Shane, 11-30-2003 13:55:35

You do NOT have to let the nailers? set for months to dry out. You can nail everything up right off the mill with out any problems at all. Even if you wanted to let it dry a bit, stickered and stored out of the weather, it only takes a month or so to air dry softwood 2x4 or 6 size lumber to about 20% or so. That's plenty dry even to build a house out of, let alone a pole building. Robert

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Shane

12-01-2003 10:07:35

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Re: Re: Re: Pole barn in reply to Robert in W. Mi, 11-30-2003 15:15:04

Yeah, I thought about that after posting. I remember being told that with really soft woods such as cottonwood it may be better to use it while it is green and that way it cant warp or twist as much since it is already nailed down. And you are correct about the drying time of soft woods, thanks for putting my foot in my mouth for me! Ha ha, Shane.

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Ray

11-30-2003 13:45:12

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Re: Pole barn in reply to Slofr8, 11-29-2003 19:39:54

I built a 24 X 24 pole barn about 10 years ago. I was told that rot occurs primarily on the top 12" of soil. I use pt poles on 12' centers (9 total). The exposed portion plus a foot below I covered with roofing asphalt and tacked on tar paper. If you tamp well (I use a 5' section of black pipe with caps on either end) you don't need any concrete or steel pins. Unlike any other construction you put up the poles and brace them (they're really wobbly at first), then build the roof. The girders and rafters tie it all together, then you can install floors, etc. Square and level is good, but there aren't any square corners until you build them, and the poles are never very straight. You shim out to make a square structure on a not-quite-square set of poles. Really sturdy and resilient once they are tied together though. You don't want any untreated wood in contact (or even anywhere near) soil. There are lots of good books on pole construction - find one and read through it. It's really pretty easy once you understand how they go together.
Ray

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Les...fortunate

11-30-2003 11:36:24

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Re: Pole barn in reply to Slofr8, 11-29-2003 19:39:54

Are you going to sink the poles in the ground? Don't use the aspen (popple). In fact, if I had a choice between popple and spruce, spruce would be the choice, hands down. Spruce has more strength for its weight than just about anything that grows around here except for maybe cedar.
My 20x30 pole shed has 6 poles: 3 treated utility poles sunk in the ground and 3 balsam fir poles on sono tubes.

Les...fortunate (in the mountains of NH)

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WPope

11-30-2003 09:29:42

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Re: Pole barn in reply to Slofr8, 11-29-2003 19:39:54

Morton Buildings will send you a free video of how they construct their buildings. It might help you with your project.

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Jack

11-30-2003 09:11:55

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Re: Pole barn in reply to Slofr8, 11-29-2003 19:39:54

Check with your local electric utility. Some of them sell used power poles pretty cheap. Here in CO I can get 35 footers for $20 each. They're already treated and should last you for years. As for using the Aspen best place is in your wood stove--even then its not much good.

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Jim in michigan

11-30-2003 06:59:42

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Re: Pole barn in reply to Slofr8, 11-29-2003 19:39:54

We built a fully enclosed pole barn 36x62 it has a 12x12 slider on one end and a 10x10 overhead on the other, due to snow load here in Northern Mich we had to have 6 foot center using 6x6 treated timbers. using lamenated columns was ok too. Our barn was bought as a package from menards and cost us roughly 9k by the time we figured in shipping and hiring a few extra hands, I can easily fit 10 tractors in it with room to work on them and a large workbench. I am very happy with it....Jim

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BigBob

11-30-2003 06:38:18

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Re: Pole barn in reply to Slofr8, 11-29-2003 19:39:54

The only advice I can give is this,figure what size you want,double it,and build that barn. That was told to me when I built mine, wish I would have listened.

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Steve from Tn

11-30-2003 05:49:22

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Re: Pole barn in reply to Slofr8, 11-29-2003 19:39:54

I am building a pole barn and learning as I go. A couple of suggestions. Treated 4X4's are about $25 each. Of course, 4X6's are a little higher. We put them in the ground with a bag of redi-mix around each pole. I believe we put a 4X6 every 12 feet and a 4X4 on each side of every door. The other thing is to make the length and width in multiples of 3. The metal sheets are 3 feet wide and it works out better this way. One more thing: keep it square. An old-timer is helping me and guiding me. He is 81 and I had to make him get off the roof and let me drive those screws in. I hope I do half as well at that age. Good luck.

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Paul Janke

11-30-2003 06:58:25

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Re: Re: Pole barn in reply to Steve from Tn, 11-30-2003 05:49:22

If the posts are set in concrete, leave the bottom of the post sticking through into the soil. By doing so, any moisture which runs down the post can get away into the ground. If the bottom is in the concrete, the moisture stays and the post rots at the ground line.

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Dieselrider

11-30-2003 05:35:02

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Re: Pole barn in reply to Slofr8, 11-29-2003 19:39:54

Dan, I wouldn't use either of those wood types in the ground. The spruce would be good for everything above ground. If you don't have locust trees to use for the poles you should really consider buying treated poles. Anything I've put up here we used locust for and it's worked well for us. It can be tough to find locust straight enough depending on how high you want to go.

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paul

11-29-2003 23:12:41

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Re: Pole barn in reply to Slofr8, 11-29-2003 19:39:54

Aspen is about like cottonwood.

Cottonwood is the least stable,most likely to rot, weakest wood around. It won't last but a year or 2 for ground contact.

I sure wouldn't use that.

Makes good paper, lousy building material.

Using your own spruce, how are you going to handle the in-ground part of this? Concrete walls? Can't really apply anything that will really help, so you wouldn't want to burry the ends....

--->Paul

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bob

11-29-2003 22:05:56

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Re: Pole barn in reply to Slofr8, 11-29-2003 19:39:54

NO ASPEN

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Brian G. NY

11-30-2003 07:14:08

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Re: Re: Pole barn in reply to bob, 11-29-2003 22:05:56

Aspen (Poplar) makes good inside window trim! Not strong enuf for structural work. I agree about using PT for everything in contact with the ground. When setting poles, dig holes below expected frost depth for your area, drop an unopened bag of "Redi-Mix" in bottom of hole and set pole ON it. It's a good idea to drill a hole and insert a piece of 1/2" rebar thru the bottom of pole allowing it to protrude 6" on each side. Spread a bag of "Redi-Mix" around pole covering the rod. Not a good idea to surround the rest of the pole with concrete; more likely to cause rot and will crack and separate from pole anyway if you're in frost prone area. Backfill with soil around poles and tamp well every six inches or so as you do it. Unless you're in an extremely dry area, there is no need to even soak the "Redi-Mix" as it will cure from natural moisture in soil. My 2 cents; based on how Morton Buildings did mine; they have built a lot of them. BTW,use highly treated poles. Morton used 8 lbs. per Cu Ft Cromated Copper Arsenate (Type III) on mine. I know there are changes being made in the treatment used for PT lumber, so check with your local lumber supplier.

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