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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Glow Plugs

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Deutz Man

12-03-2003 02:38:57




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Hi Guys

I have a Deutz which can been difficult to start on cold mornings. I am thinking of installing a glow plug on the air intake manifold. I have two questions.

Q1
Right or Wrong?
How a glow plug works: When voltage is applied to it, the tip of the plug is heated, this in turn
heats the air been sucked into the cylinder, thus aiding starting.

Q2
How effective are glow plugs in aiding starting?

Thanks for your help

Deutz Man

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Deutz Man

12-04-2003 07:54:16




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 Re: Glow Plugs in reply to Deutz Man, 12-03-2003 02:38:57  
Thanks guys for all the comments and advice



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Dan

12-03-2003 16:40:37




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 Re: Glow Plugs in reply to Deutz Man, 12-03-2003 02:38:57  
Have you considered using one of those magnetic oil pan heaters? Not familiar with the Deutz tractors but must have an oil pan. You can get a look at one by going here: >Link

This>Link one seems a bit pricy but I have seen them for around $15 to $20. If the oil is warmed up the engine should turn a lot easier.



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JD-Tractor

12-03-2003 14:19:12




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 Re: Glow Plugs in reply to Deutz Man, 12-03-2003 02:38:57  
These guys argue all they want about either not hurting engines,about the only engine ether dosen't hurt is the older cummins and anyone that regularly uses ether has been just plain lucky.Deutz engines in particular are subject to damage to the pistons and rings.Ran An equipment dealership that dealt with a lot of Deutz engines and spent much time on the phone with Deutz headquarters about this very subject.My rule at the shop was if you didn't have $500.00 in your pocket for repairs then you didn't go out with a can of ether!!

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motrack

12-03-2003 18:53:51




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 Re: Re: Glow Plugs in reply to JD-Tractor, 12-03-2003 14:19:12  
Gleaner combines useing Deutz engines had ether injection on them from the factory 10 years or so ago.

never seen one of those engines damged by the use of ether



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Larry NE IL

12-03-2003 18:48:26




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 Re: Re: Glow Plugs in reply to JD-Tractor, 12-03-2003 14:19:12  
I agree 100%. Except for older Cummins. Had a "76 Pete with a 350 Cummins, at time for an inframe o/h, I spent a ton of money having the head welded. I own an excavating business, and I don't use a drop of the stuff.



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Robert in W. Mi

12-03-2003 12:11:09




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 Re: Glow Plugs in reply to Deutz Man, 12-03-2003 02:38:57  
First of all, none of the Deutz tractors i've owned have been "hard starters". So, maybe checking everything on yours to begin with would be a big help. (includeing compression)

You can put synthetic 15w40 oil in yours for the winter, and that would help "a lot". I would NOT run 10W as was suggested.

If you go to your AGCO dealer, the Agco Allis tractors (5600 series) they sold a few years ago had an "optional" 110v heater that went in the engine shroud to preheat the cylinders. One of my tractors has it, and i did plug it in a couple times just to see how it worked. It worked very well!! My tractors start good with out it, so i normally don't use it. I think at the time, they were $85.00 at the parts counter. I'm sure you would have to order one to get one. To install, all you do is hole saw a small hole in the engine shroud, and in it goes!!

As was said, holding a heat gun or hair dryer in the intake will help too.

I don't and "won't" use ether in any of my tractors!!!

Robert

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Yo

12-03-2003 07:44:47




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 Re: Glow Plugs in reply to Deutz Man, 12-03-2003 02:38:57  
I have a 6006 with glow plug. It is a good system. It not only heats intake air but also heats a small quantity of fuel so the warm fuel aids in starting as well. We just turn on the key and pull the starter button until it clicks and you are heating. It is more efficient if you tuen the engine over a few times before heating to be sure there is fuel in it. Even better is to get an engine heater. It simply bolts inside the air cowel and heats the cylinders. Its not as effective as a block heater on a water cooled but does help a great deal. With just the glow plugs and a mediocure battery we have managed in an emergency to start it at -20F.

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Deutz Man

12-03-2003 08:01:01




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 Re: Re: Glow Plugs in reply to Yo, 12-03-2003 07:44:47  
Yo is the glow plug u have, the type that has a fuel line going to it as refered to in one of the postings below.



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MapleStone

12-03-2003 07:36:45




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 Re: Glow Plugs in reply to Deutz Man, 12-03-2003 02:38:57  
Like Phil said your battery is a lot weaker when it is cold and I understand that with an air cooled engine you can't use a block heater. But what you can do is install your glow plugs and use a battery warmer.

At least around here (southern Ontario Canada) you can buy small heaters that wrap around your battery and you then plug that in to 120 V and it will warm your battery. This then will give you enough power to use the glow plugs and still crank that cold engine.

I will try to find a link to what I am talking about and post it.

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MapleStone

12-03-2003 07:53:26




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 Re: Re: Glow Plugs in reply to MapleStone, 12-03-2003 07:36:45  
Here is a link to JCWhitney



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Bob

12-03-2003 07:30:35




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 Re: Glow Plugs in reply to Deutz Man, 12-03-2003 02:38:57  
How about this? (And, NO, I'm not the seller.)



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jim_ball

12-03-2003 06:51:40




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 Re: Glow Plugs in reply to Deutz Man, 12-03-2003 02:38:57  
i have a deutz 6265 with glow plugs & a d90-06
without glow plugs. it is very important that your injectors are clean and pump is working correctly. also your starter (bosch) & batteries should be functioning correctly. what i do is to put 10w motor oil in engine. this aids in turning over the motor. before i start the tractor i use a hair drier to pre-warm the air going into intake. you can buy this at a salvation army store for $ 2. if the air is warmed while turning over it will start easily until ( - 10 degrees F).

never use ether.

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Phil Munson

12-03-2003 06:25:18




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 Re: Glow Plugs in reply to Deutz Man, 12-03-2003 02:38:57  
Glow plugs suck. At thirty two degrees a battery is half of what it was at seventy degrees. At zero degrees a battery is half of what it was at thirty two degrees. Thus, when you need power the most to crank your engine, when it is very cold, you only have a small fraction of the cranking power that is available when it is warm. Generally, giving the "cream" off of your battery, leaving only the "skim" to crank the engine, is not a great strategy. As pointed out by others, judicious use of ether never hurt an engine, and does not drain your batteries.

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Robert in W. Mi

12-03-2003 11:53:31




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 Re: Re: Glow Plugs in reply to Phil Munson, 12-03-2003 06:25:18  
You said "glow plugs" All the Deutz i've owned only had "one" glow plug, and it does NOT pull the batt down as you indicated.

Yes, in a Ford power stroke, or the Chevy diesels with glow plug"s" they really put the hurt on the batt., but all the Deutz engines i've owned started very easily, and one glow plug is all they ever needed. Robert



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Daryl

12-03-2003 05:14:10




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 Re: Glow Plugs in reply to Deutz Man, 12-03-2003 02:38:57  
I had a Deutz 6265 and it had glow plugs. It was set up like most and you held the key in a certain place(just before the starter engaged, I think) and it worked excellent. If it got to zero or ten below it was hard to start because you can't(or shouldn't) use either on an air coolded engine.



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Deutz Man

12-03-2003 06:55:45




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 Re: Re: Glow Plugs in reply to Daryl, 12-03-2003 05:14:10  
As a matter of interest why cant you use ether on an air cooled engine below zero degress



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Daryl

12-03-2003 09:14:57




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 Re: Re: Re: Glow Plugs in reply to Deutz Man, 12-03-2003 06:55:45  
The operator's manual says not to use it. I would guess that with the glow plugs mixed with ether would be very dangerous. I never use ether on anything with glow plugs. I've seen people use ether in gas engines, but I wouldn't. One thing that is very important on the Deutz engines is to make sure to adjust the valves. I adjusted mine every year/500 hrs. This should also help your cold starts.

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Greywolf

12-03-2003 04:57:43




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 Re: Glow Plugs in reply to Deutz Man, 12-03-2003 02:38:57  
If you are starting with nothing and have to fabricate one from the start. Go to your Case/IH dealer and get a heater for either a 930 or 1030 Case. The "heater" is a screw in one on the air intake manifold.

Just so you know, it takes a bunch of juice and a bit of time.

Normally on mine energizing it for at least 1 min AFTER I have turned it over a few times to "load" up the cylinders to begin with.

Make sure your batteries are up to snuff. They are amp hogs.

But DO NOT utilize the heater AND ether unless you want to replace everything the first time you use the two together.

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Brokenwrench

12-03-2003 04:15:55




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 Re: Glow Plugs in reply to Deutz Man, 12-03-2003 02:38:57  
The glow plugs are designed to be installed in the combustion chamber,so when the injector sprays, it hits the hot tip of the glow plug and ignites the fuel. You would need the install either a grid type heater in the intake manifold similar to what the cummins engines use,or one of the older stle heaters that the Perkins engines or older fords used. These have a heating coil and a fuel supply. When activated, the coil gets hot, fuel drips on it starting a fire in the intake,which in turn is drawn in to the cylinder while cranking over. Either of these will take some engineering to adapt to your engine. An easier method of cold starting would either be the use of an ether injector which injects a measured shot of ether in to the engine while cranking,or just give the engine a light shot of ether while you are cranking it. If you use ether judiciously,no engine damage will result.It has been a common practice for years and many manufactures have ether injectors on their engines.

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