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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Should Seatbelts be mandatory..??

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Ron

12-18-2003 17:44:15

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Where does the limit of safety come in to play..?

I saw a JD "A" at Plain City, Ohio..
This Guy's wife was pulling it, and it was a POWERHOUSE..!!
At the 220 ft mark, she lightly touched the rt brake, and it suddenly went into a DANCE--leaping from one rear wheel to the Other..she was ALL OVER that tractor...
Somehow, she got the clutch out before it threw her off...
Wonder how far it would have gone if she had not got it stopped..???
Maybe we have exceeded the reasonable limit ..!!
Should seat belts be mandatory..??

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IHC Red

12-21-2003 16:55:22

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Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to Ron, 12-18-2003 17:44:15

I'm 6'2" and in smaller cars I have to lean the seat back a ways or I'm eating the windshield. With the seat back, the shoulder straps hang across my face. Yea, that's safe. When did "seat belts" and "seat belts with shoulder straps" become one and the same ?

I'd rather have the police and sherifs finding the meth cookers and thieves than bugging otherwise law-abiding decent people about their stupid friggin' belts.

jmho

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buickanddeere

12-22-2003 07:41:34

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Re: Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to IHC Red, 12-21-2003 16:55:22

Who pays for the extra health care, long term therapy, nursing home fees to keep a cripple alive for 40 years. Just becaue you can't adjust a seat and seat belt? It's me still able to work after an accident that left you unable to wipe your own nose.

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DH in Carolina

12-19-2003 16:40:25

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Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to Ron, 12-18-2003 17:44:15

I used to set on my seatbelt in the truck or whatever until I turned a ford backhoe over on the side of a hill. You do not always have time to jump clear because it happens fast and I was not expecting it. I tried bailing off but the rops stopped the hoe from rolling completely over on me because I could not get out of the way. Now I wear mine because I want to not because someone says I have to.

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Red Dave

12-19-2003 06:47:20

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Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to Ron, 12-18-2003 17:44:15

To wear a seatbelt without rollover protection is just plain foolhardy.
I have heard of some pulling associations that are considering a requirement of remotely operated kill switches. I guess the sled operator would then have the ability to shut it down in an emergency. Haven't seen that set up around my area yet though.

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Scott Green

12-19-2003 06:14:30

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Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to Ron, 12-18-2003 17:44:15

I remember a time when the manager of a store was almost to work. He had an accident. Fire broke out. The man was strapped in his car with a seatbelt. Could not get it off. The man screaming from the pain , begging the sherriff to shoot him. The sherriff couldn't do it. The sherriff watched as the man litterally burn to death. That was about 32 years ago. Long before the seatbelt law. I think seatbelts should be a personal choice , regaurdless of statistics. Or , maybe it be mandatory if traveling on highways with speed limits in access of ??? Last I knew , police , fire , etc.(emergency vehicles) , did not have to wear seatbelts. What does that tell you. No one else knows how to drive? Then again , as time goes on , when ever I get onto an expressway , I see more and more people driving like maniacs. I do wear my seatbelt when driving amongst them. So who knows. As far as tractor pulls go , I vote "NO" to seatbelts. If I remember right , the drivers of super-stock tractors wear seatbelts anyways , along with helmets.

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buickanddeere

12-19-2003 20:36:52

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Re: Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to Scott Green, 12-19-2003 06:14:30

The anti-seatbelt people trot this old fire/stuck seatbelt story out every time. Rates right up there with the Youth Group church story with the "Welcome to the world of aids" written on the bathroom mirror by the previous nights lover. I take it you have never picked windshield glass from the face of a girl that used to be pretty. Or picked up the body ejected from a vehicle crash/rollover. Anyone who tells you that not being securely held inside the vehicles protective zone also deny that cigarettes ever killed anyone. By the way, ever see the parents who child was crushed between the Mother and the car dash? Children belong buckled in in the backseat. Also, how many of you have pto's without the proper shield and covers? That is just careless to the point of being passively evil. In a hurry, can't afford repairs..... pure foolishness.

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Dieselrider

12-20-2003 05:53:11

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Re: Re: Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to buickanddeere, 12-19-2003 20:36:52

Well said!

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Red Dave

12-19-2003 07:04:21

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Re: Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to Scott Green, 12-19-2003 06:14:30

NFPA standards for fire apparatus require seatbelts for every seat. Fire/rescue/EMS & police are not exempt from seatbelt requirements in my state.

Having served my community in the volunteer fire/rescue service for the past 29 years and a few thousand vehicle accidents, I can't remember a seatbelt buckle that failed to release, even though I do carry a tool to cut it just in case it ever does happen.
I have seen more than a few people who were dead because they didn't wear a seatbelt though.

Didn't that fool sherriff even have a fire extinguisher or a pocketknife?

Even with that, I still think adults should have the right to decide for themselves whether to wear one or not.

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Scott Green

12-19-2003 09:04:08

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Re: Re: Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to Red Dave, 12-19-2003 07:04:21

Hi Red Dave , From what I remember , due to the accident , the seatbelt latch was not accessible. And no , the sherriff couldn't find anything to cut the strap. Aparrently no fire extinguisher. Or maybe the extinguisher didn't work. Not shure about that. This was 32 years ago. Maybe 33 years ago. I'm shure a lot has changed between then and now. I'll bet the sherriff still has nightmares.

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Willy-N

12-19-2003 11:34:15

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to Scott Green, 12-19-2003 09:04:08

When my brother was a Fire Fighter he quit being one when he responded to a car wreck to get people out and after rescueing them the wrecker pulled the car up onto the road and there was a baby under it smashed. He told me that was to much to deal with for no pay. Another time he told me about a guy who was haft way in the car and haft out not wearing a belt and the door was closed on his body. He did not live. You can maybe look at that wreck the guy burned in as if had not had it on he probley would have been killed or knocked out hitting the dash or other parts of the car. I myself keep a saftey belt cutter in my vehicals and also in the school bus just in case along with fire extinusers. Never know when they may be needed. They are with in reach of the driver. Mark H.

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Willy-N

12-19-2003 06:59:18

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Re: Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to Scott Green, 12-19-2003 06:14:30

I am on the Fire Dept and it is required to wear them in the trucks. The police and Medical Rescue people also are required to wear them unless they are in the back with a person needing help. Mark H.

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Matt

12-19-2003 10:45:22

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Re: Re: Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to Willy-N, 12-19-2003 06:59:18

Ditto up here in Connecticut. Unless you're actively tending a patient, you wear seatbelts.

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Dieselrider

12-19-2003 04:18:00

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Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to Ron, 12-18-2003 17:44:15

Ron, I don't think you'll ever get folks to agree to mandatory use of seatbelts. I don't think they would do any good unless the machine also had ROPS to keep the machine off the operator if it did go over. If you'd require the rops it would really take away from the look of the antique tractor.
However, I do see a point here that some may or may not be willing to admit to. If an accident had occured here and someone would have been hurt or worse, there would have been no pulling at this show in the future as the liability issues would have prevented it. And maybe not at shows for hundres of miles around either. That might be the bigger lose in the long run for future generations. You really opened a can of worms on this one.
I personally use a seat belt in my pickup all the time. If you come out of the seat you have no idea where you'll end up. Your best chance is in the vehicle no matter what any one tries to tell you. The statistics all speak for themselves.

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Steve

12-19-2003 04:30:08

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Re: Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to Dieselrider, 12-19-2003 04:18:00

Who's statistics? The government? the one who has forced the maker of your pickup to make it unsafe by makeing it lighter? Why do you think the do gooders are after the SUV's ? not because they are safer.It's time people take responseabilty for their actions and not blame others, thats what the government does blame others.

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What color is th sky in y

12-19-2003 05:20:35

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Re: Re: Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to Steve, 12-19-2003 04:30:08

Exactly why are they after the suvs then? And I don't believe it's the government that's after the suvs anyway. It's the tree hugers and the compact car drivers. Do you have trouble sleeping at night knowing the big bad government is out there? You could always try another country! Only I have to warn ya, THET HAVE GOVERNMENTS TOO!!!! SHHHH!! They might hear!!

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Steve

12-19-2003 16:21:35

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to What color is th sky in y, 12-19-2003 05:20:35

Maybe you should, I was refering to the DO gooders that think they have to protect everyone else (government). This IS my country I can drive what and when I want. You need a touch of reality.

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John S-B

12-24-2003 08:37:42

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory. in reply to Steve, 12-19-2003 16:21:35

Correction; This is OUR country. The reason we have laws and rules is so that all of us with all our different views and opinions just don't whack each other. Not that all laws are good, but we can at least change them when experience shows them to be bad. Nothing (in THIS world ) is perfect.

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Stan TN

12-18-2003 22:41:30

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Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to Ron, 12-18-2003 17:44:15

Who would you have make the use of seatbelts manditory? The organizers of the event of the Federal Gooberment?

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John S-B

12-18-2003 22:20:55

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Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to Ron, 12-18-2003 17:44:15

It's kind of hard to work the controls if you can't even stay in the seat! There's very little chance if any of you being able to jump clear of a tractor if it goes out of control. As for all the "personal freedom" talk, most pulls are done in fairgrounds, arenas etc. that have a right to impose safety regulations as they see fit. Also tractor pull associations have the right to govern their pulls since they are the organizers. If you are so set against someone telling to be safe you are free to pull however you like on your on piece of earth. Life is too short to worry about having to follow a few rules, there's no one who doesn't have to follow some rules some time. Sure, some rules are a pain but most of them are there for a good reason. Have fun but be safe.

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Steve

12-19-2003 03:49:05

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Re: Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to John S-B, 12-18-2003 22:20:55

You must find trouble every where you look? You are a DO GOODER.

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John S-B

12-24-2003 08:25:12

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Re: Re: Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to Steve, 12-19-2003 03:49:05

No I am not a "do gooder". I believe in common sense, but I know common sense is not common. As a matter of fact it's people doing stupid things that gives me job security.( I'm a Firefighter-Paramedic ) I don't find trouble everywhere, I'm not the one complaining about the rules. Obviously you missed the point of my post.

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RZ(Wa)

12-18-2003 21:05:25

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Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to Ron, 12-18-2003 17:44:15

Have to agree with a couple of the other posts. Personal safety is just that, PERSONAL. Whether we are pulling, racing or rock climbing, each of us weigh the risks and ramifications to the rewards and decide for ourselves. So enough of this legislative BS....'nother$.02

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snitkawl

12-19-2003 05:04:41

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Re: Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to RZ(Wa), 12-18-2003 21:05:25

I heard Jackie Stewart respond to the seatbelt question some time back. His thinking was: "If something happens that causes you to be thrown out of your seat so that you are no longer able to control your vehicle and your vehicle crosses the road and hits my vehicle, your decision not to wear a seat belt just became MY business."
This arguement will go on endlessly. You can deny the facts all you want, but that doesn`t change them. Staying in the vehicle is the safest and seatbelts keep you in the vehicle. Do you suppose many race car drivers would survive crashes without seatbelts?

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jd-tractor

12-18-2003 19:09:09

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Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to Ron, 12-18-2003 17:44:15

better to have had a deadman switch,tractor gets out of hand ,let go of the switch ,tractor dies ,simple as that.sure it would have been her that got hurt unless through some strange happening a bystander gets hurt, remember we don't live in vacumns and our actions always impinge on other's

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Willy-N

12-18-2003 18:39:41

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Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to Ron, 12-18-2003 17:44:15

I am alive today several times over because of wearing them in Cars. I just feel they keep you in the seat behind the controls when something goes wrong or somebody hits you and knocks the car around. Don't do much good if you end up in the passenger seat or worst yet thru the windsheild to keep you car on the road from hitting another car, pedestrian or object that does not move easily. Hard to steer and work the brakes sliding around in the seat. There is a good reason people wear them in race cars and most of the time walk away from bad wrecks. For those reasons I think they should be required to protect the other guy and the person driving along with the people riding in the car. Just plain good sence to me. No role bar on the tractor you should not wear one! Mark H.

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Steve

12-19-2003 03:53:54

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Re: Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to Willy-N, 12-18-2003 18:39:41

What did you do before seat belts? I belive the cars and pickups were built better. I for one have taken dead people out of seat belts and in the same car a live one without.

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Willy-N

12-19-2003 06:55:21

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Re: Re: Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to Steve, 12-19-2003 03:53:54

I am only 52 so they have made them all my life. In cars that did not have them I put them in. I have roled a car off the freeway at 60 mph and walked away from it wearing a belt. I also roled a VW down a 35 ft embankment and only broke my nose on the steering wheel. On time I rear ended a car at about 30 mph and I had a 4 point seatbelt on and just jerked in the seat but all the other people flew into the dash, windsheild and the guys in the back hit the role bar with there head and allmost got killed. I have many stories where they save me as a wild teenager driving. Off road racing they keep me from hitting my head on jumps and I stay in the seat behind the controls. You could never change my mine and I don't think I could change yours about wearing them. I just hope you never need them someday and not have them on. Mark H.

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Oh My God

12-19-2003 07:17:56

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to Willy-N, 12-19-2003 06:55:21

It sounds like with or without a seatbelt you have a big problem driving! Maybe you should turn in your license before you and your seatbelt kill someone!!

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Willy-N

12-19-2003 07:42:50

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory. in reply to Oh My God, 12-19-2003 07:17:56

Don't worry now I drive a school bus and still wear my seatbelt along with the kids in it so we are OK. Mark H.

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Dieselrider

12-19-2003 10:34:38

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Should Seatbelts be mandat in reply to Willy-N, 12-19-2003 07:42:50

Hey WillyN, You can't convince a fool against his will. He just keeps on being a fool, still. And when all the fools are dead we neighbors will be far apart. I aggree with you as to wearing seatbelts, so I'm going to keep wearing mine too. Unless you think it might be a government plot to keep us killing ourselves or something like that? Oh my, Oh my!!!

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Willy-N

12-19-2003 11:25:23

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Should Seatbelts be ma in reply to Dieselrider, 12-19-2003 10:34:38

I realy never needed a law to wear mine it was common sence. The law was for people like steve who does not have any and needs protecting from himself. I think steve is at school now. Mark H.

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Dieselrider

12-19-2003 04:00:03

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Re: Re: Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to Steve, 12-19-2003 03:53:54

UH huh ! Yah !

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Steve

12-19-2003 04:35:18

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to Dieselrider, 12-19-2003 04:00:03

You need to live in the real world. Or quit your government job.

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Dieselrider

12-19-2003 05:24:26

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory. in reply to Steve, 12-19-2003 04:35:18

Steve, I don't work for the government, I'm self employed but I'm not sure you live in the real world either. Isn't it time for your prozac?

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Mark

12-18-2003 18:06:56

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Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to Ron, 12-18-2003 17:44:15

No seat belts should not be mandatory. If the tractor in question had gone over, the driver would have been cinched in,unable to jump clear. To use a seatbelt there must be a ROPS,I don't think a bunch of farm stock pullers want to be legislated into putting A ROPS on a tractor that was never designed to have one. If they,by their own volition decide to install a ROPS and seatbelts more power to them, or if the tractor was originally equipped with them, then use them if they so desire. This also mirrors my opinion of mandatory seatbelt laws,its up to the person in the seat,not some goody-goody looking out for everybody elses interests so they can get a warm fuzzy feeling.

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Ron

12-18-2003 18:33:42

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Re: Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to Mark, 12-18-2003 18:06:56

I see that you MISS the POINT...!!!

If that was any kind of Stock tractor, it would never have had that kind of power...!!

That was representative of a highly Modified tractor, and is in NO WAY any where near as safe as a stock one... I suppose we will have to have some Deaths, to force things to change... These were Never Toys, and they should not be taken for granted...when you Double the power of one of these, they can easily get out of hand.. That one DID get out-of-Hand..!! If she had been killed, I very much doubt there would be ANY tractor pulls there next year, or the years after, either...

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Mark

12-18-2003 19:02:46

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Re: Re: Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to Ron, 12-18-2003 18:33:42

Possibly you missed the point. Mind your own affairs and don't try to dictate to me whether I, or someone else should or should not wear a seatbelt based on your observations. Believe it or not there are still people out in the real world who can fend for themselves without having someone think for them from the sidelines or the legislative chamber.

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gene b

12-19-2003 03:27:47

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to Mark, 12-18-2003 19:02:46

MARK you said it right.

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12-18-2003 21:22:42

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to Mark, 12-18-2003 19:02:46

Hey Mark,
Lighten up there buddy! Take a pill and sit down and cool off awhile, dang I don't think anyone knew the gun was loaded!

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Oklahomatractorrebuilder

12-18-2003 19:26:07

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory..?? in reply to Mark, 12-18-2003 19:02:46

I feel that anyone who says seatbelts of any knid on anything should mind their own business. I am 48 now and have driven tricycle tractors for over 40 years now. Thye solution to having tractors kill people is a operator problem not a seatbelt problem. Drivers need to learn to use a clutch when the tractor starts to stand up not wait till it is straight up. The extra inch they pull is not worth it.

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Steve

12-19-2003 03:43:22

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Should Seatbelts be mandatory. in reply to Oklahomatractorrebuilder, 12-18-2003 19:26:07

I agree, mandatory seatbelts laws are to raise money only. Do gooders need to take care of their own house. NO SEAT BELTS

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JMS/MN

12-22-2003 12:27:59

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Should Seatbelts be mandat in reply to Steve, 12-19-2003 03:43:22

Seat belts RULE! For those who chose not to wear them, make sure you line up all of your relatives to take care of you until you die, rather than be on the govt welfare rolls, paid by the survivors who do the responsible thing and buckle up. I'll gladly go with the percentages that say they are effective.

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Rusty Jones

12-21-2003 11:25:32

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Should Seatbelts be mandat in reply to Steve, 12-19-2003 03:43:22

I had an elderly friend who stated emphatically: "No seat belts for me! I wouldn't be caught dead in a seat belt"! Well, he wasn't! He pulled his car out into 2 lanes of traffic, on a 4-lane road, got hit, the car swung to the right, he fell out, and the cars came together, there-by squashing him in between them! I also say, if yer tractor doesn't have ROPS protection, then don't have seat belts, so ya can leap away from trouble. Hopefully! And, when the do-gooders start clamoring for seat belts on motorcycles, I'll give mine up! RJ

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