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New Idea Uni-System

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Drewy

12-26-2003 20:15:01

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i've got an old uni system (702) we used to use for picking corn. i'm looking to sell it and found dead batteries. it's got two 6 volt batteries and they are connected in series. my question is: can i simply replace these two batteries with one 12 volt one? voltage adds in series, so i assume this would work but just want to make sure. thanks

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Drewy

12-28-2003 09:13:17

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Re: New Idea Uni-System in reply to Drewy, 12-26-2003 20:15:01

got the old uni running great after i threw in a larger 12 volt pickup battery. i've got another question: it's a 702 model (gas) that works very well for picking corn (4 row deere head). would it be better to sell the head separate from the machine? i'm in NW iowa and not many poeple pick corn anymore. is there anywhere someone might want a good corn picker like this one? What is this thing approximately worth?
thanks again

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Dave (mn)

12-28-2003 16:33:35

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Re: Re: New Idea Uni-System in reply to Drewy, 12-28-2003 09:13:17

What number of JD corn does it use? And what kind of throat does it have to adapt the JD corn to the picker unit? And what number of picker unit is it, a 727 or 737?

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Drewy

12-28-2003 21:06:06

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Re: Re: Re: New Idea Uni-System in reply to Dave (mn), 12-28-2003 16:33:35

sorry, i don't know the head number right off the bat, i can look tomorrow and check. and the throat i have no idea. the original four row head was shot so we bought a john deere four row and it works. i was younger when my grandpa switched them so i dont' know how it was adapted to the uni system, but my guess is that it fit without any modifications

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grazer

12-28-2003 18:07:06

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Re: Re: Re: New Idea Uni-System in reply to Dave (mn), 12-28-2003 16:33:35

I know a man who might be interested email me

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big man

12-27-2003 20:04:58

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Re: New Idea Uni-System in reply to Drewy, 12-26-2003 20:15:01

hook up 2 12 volt batterys in parrallel circuit and get 12 volts with double amps you'll love the difference in it took out 4 sixes in series [2 12 volt supplys] on a 4070 IH and replaced with 4 12 volt batterys truck would crank anywhere any time any temp simple you are just doubling the length of time before discharge with half the strain on you're batterys. just remember on first battery in your system it is + to starter on one side - to + on SECOND battery and - to ground on tractor. on the new setup all + starter to battery all - to ground. I prefer one to frame and one to engine and be sure you have all connections clean and tite [grounds that is].

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Drewy

12-27-2003 07:50:07

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Re: New Idea Uni-System in reply to Drewy, 12-26-2003 20:15:01

i haven't had a chance to look at the ratings of the two batteries yet. yes, it looks like the stock setup (as someone wondered if it was jerry-rigged). thanks for the replies. i just need to get it started, so i'll just try one larger 12 volt from another tractor and see what i can get for turnover.
thanks again

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Mike (WA)

12-27-2003 08:10:21

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Re: Re: New Idea Uni-System in reply to Drewy, 12-27-2003 07:50:07

The Uni system was formerly Minneapolis Moline, and used a 206 cubic inch 4 cylinder gas engine- any moderate amperage 12 volt battery should turn it over just fine. I disagree with a former poster who said you only get the amperage of one 6 volt battery if they're hooked in series- I can't prove it mathmatically, but I think you get the total of the two. My Oliver 550 diesel cranks much faster now that I went back to two six volts in series (like it originally came out), even though the stated amperage of each 6 volt is less than the 12 I replaced.

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Red Dave

12-27-2003 08:24:54

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Re: Re: Re: New Idea Uni-System in reply to Mike (WA), 12-27-2003 08:10:21

The voltage is additive in a series circuit, not the amperage. Amperage is the same in all parts of a series circuit. One of Kirchoff's laws and can be proved both mathematically and experimentally.
Your Oliver most likely starts better because it is getting more voltage at the starter's terminals now than it did before. I'd be inclined to think that the ampere rating on that 12 volt battery was overly optimistic.
Not looking to start a pi$$ing contest, just clearing up a common misconception.

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Mike (WA)

12-27-2003 08:28:02

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Re: Re: Re: Re: New Idea Uni-System in reply to Red Dave, 12-27-2003 08:24:54

Thanks- If I'd been any good at math, I could have probably made an honest living. Come to think of it, I replaced one of the battery cables at the same time, and maybe that was the problem all along. Or maybe its the "placebo" effect- just seems better.

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Red Dave

12-27-2003 10:42:22

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: New Idea Uni-System in reply to Mike (WA), 12-27-2003 08:28:02

Yes, battery cables play a big part in it. I have long been suspicious of the high ampere capability claims of some batteries. I realize that technology has moved at leaps and bounds in the past 30 years, but I've seen some awfully small batteries claiming very high cranking amps. Maybe so, but it just doesn't seem possible in a real world setting. That's why I think that manufacturers put some overly optimistic ratings on labels.
If what you're doing seems better, it most likely is better, and that's what counts.

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john d

12-27-2003 06:27:16

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Re: New Idea Uni-System in reply to Drewy, 12-26-2003 20:15:01

Check the amperage rating (CCA) for the batteries, and go with the most economical fix that will dependably start it. Back when that Uni was popular, most 12 volt batteries didn't have the amperage ratings that are available today.

Hooking 2 6-volt batteries in series will give you 12 volts. BUT it will NOT add the amperage ratings of the two batteries together. That setup will have 12 volts and the amperage of ONE of the batteries, assuming they are the same size.
To get the full amperage of BOTH batteries, you would have to hook them in parallel, which would put you back at 6 volts.

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john

12-27-2003 05:49:06

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Re: New Idea Uni-System in reply to Drewy, 12-26-2003 20:15:01

While two 6 volts add to one 12 volt battery I would agree with bob and say the amps will not be there. You would have to have a very large 12 volt to match the amps and may be better off just getting two 6 volt batterys.

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Bob D. (La)

12-27-2003 02:53:43

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Re: New Idea Uni-System in reply to Drewy, 12-26-2003 20:15:01

Drewey, It was common practice in the early sixties for manufacturers to use two six volt batteries in series instead of one twelve volt battery. The one twelve volt will work. You may have less cranking amps though so it might be worth the investment to put six volts back in. Napa still carries six volt batteries. HTH Bob

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Tom

12-27-2003 00:21:38

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Re: New Idea Uni-System in reply to Drewy, 12-26-2003 20:15:01

Drewy,

You are absolutely correct about the fact that two 6 volt batteries in series will produce the same voltage as one 12 volt battery, but I would really wonder why you have two 6 volt batteries instead of one 12 volt battery. Does it look like someone cobbled this connection to utilize two batteries that he already owned instead of acquiring a 12 volt battery in the first place? I can't imagine a manufacturer doing this on purpose.

Good luck,

Tom

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buickanddeere

12-27-2003 07:26:10

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Re: Re: New Idea Uni-System in reply to Tom, 12-27-2003 00:21:38

Way back in the 40,50's just about everything was 6v. Due to high power demands the 6v batteries got pretty big. They were cheap too due to high volume production. When 12v & 24V was introduced into general farm & automotive it was cheaper to purchase two or four large 6V batteries than one large 12V. The 12V batteries at the time were pretty small as they only had to crank 283's & slant 6's. Large 12V batteries were an overpriced industrial and aviation item. Two six's in series is kosher as long as they both are the same size,make,age,water level and charge level. Not to say some farmers have cobbled to gether some crude and dangerous contrapions as a tempory fix to get the job done. The fixes usually last until someone gets hurt. When was that Uni system introduced and how long did it stay in production?

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fasting

12-27-2003 11:52:20

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Re: Re: Re: New Idea Uni-System in reply to buickanddeere, 12-27-2003 07:26:10

The Moline must date back to 1961. Once New Idea
bought the rights, they appeared to produce a high
capacity new design, by about '64(?). The concept
was interesting: a self-propelled combine that was
also a 3 row forage harvester, even offered a snow
blower unit, optional Diesel engine. They botched
the design, by not offering a 4x4 drive, for mud,
and hills. Both Fox & Deere were building 3 row
harvesters,4x4, that eroded the Uni-system market to non-flatland farmers.By mid-70's, Uni's were
common on Deere trade-in lots. Guess there were
more performance issues left unsolved, they seem
to fadeout, by the 80's.

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buickanddeere

12-27-2003 19:24:55

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Re: Re: Re: Re: New Idea Uni-System in reply to fasting, 12-27-2003 11:52:20

Who was Fox anyways? My Uncles always had Fox forage harvestors and thought they were just great even though everything else on the place were beat up Deeres.

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fasting

12-28-2003 15:29:21

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: New Idea Uni-System in reply to buickanddeere, 12-27-2003 19:24:55

Testing the lost names here. Fox was based in Wisconsin, back in the 50's, building durable forage harvesters, blowers, private labled Calhoun
forage boxes(tough ones). Company was Frick-Fox,
Fricke built saw mill equipment. A European
company, Koehring, that builds construction equipment bought Fox,possibly Fricke also, by the
early 60's. Fox did have that 4x4, large wheel style SP harvester, first. This machine could pull
a wagon through mud, up hills,etc. Deere jumped ahead of NH, offering the large 4x4 drive, on the
5400(?). Fox was sold, dealers faded, Deere took
the market, another win. Fox lost loyalty, parts
were/are still available.

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motrack

12-27-2003 12:07:36

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Re: Re: Re: Re: New Idea Uni-System in reply to fasting, 12-27-2003 11:52:20

our model 801 uni had rear wheel drive on it.

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