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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Difference between volts and amps ???

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Forgot

01-22-2004 05:30:50




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I remember my highschool automotives teacher explaining very clearly the difference between volts and amps. Unfortunately I don't remember what he told me or how he explained it (which seemed to make a lot of sense back then). Can anyone on the forum here give us an easy-to-understand explanation of the difference between volts and amps? I do remember electrons being involved somehow.




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ETSHOBBY

01-22-2004 21:29:29




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 Re: Difference between volts and amps ??? in reply to Forgot , 01-22-2004 05:30:50  
VOLTS CARRIES THE POWER ,MORE VOLTS STRONGER CARRING ABILITY.
AMPS PUTS THE STRENGTH INTO DOING THE WORK.
HORSE POWER GETS THE WORK DONE .
EXAMPLE WOULD BE LIKE EATING FOOD{VOLTS} CONVERTS TO ENERGY.
ENERGY {AMPS}CONVERTS MUSCLE STRENGTH.
STRENGTH{HORSE POWER} CONVERTS HANDLING THE WORK LOAD.



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Loren

01-22-2004 20:26:40




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 Re: Difference between volts and amps ??? in reply to Forgot , 01-22-2004 05:30:50  
The best analogy I can think is to think of it as water pressure and the flow. The voltage is the amount of pressure and the amps is the amount of flow.



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CH

01-22-2004 15:33:31




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 Re: Difference between volts and amps ??? in reply to Forgot , 01-22-2004 05:30:50  
Stan(PA) used the correct word. Voltage is a potential difference. It's the potential at the at the input of a circuit compared with that at the return. Depending on the resistance of the circuit determines the current. I(current)=Volt/resistance.

Maybe I should use a hose. Or maybe Kirkoff's current law. I probably spelled that wrong. Benn out of college 25 years.



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Benj. J. Joe Browning

01-22-2004 15:18:39




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 Re: Difference between volts and amps ??? in reply to Forgot , 01-22-2004 05:30:50  
Hello Everyone Again, I agree that the comparsion to water works best. On the practical side. Is the following correct?
Using a 110 volt (pressure of water) 15 Amp(volume of water) breaker. The wire size of 14 guage (diameter of pipe means only a fixed volume) will only operate eight plugs (sprinklers).
However using a 110 volt(pressure of water) 20 Amp (volume of water)) breaker. The wire size of 12 guage ( diameter of the pipe is greater meaning more volume) will operate 11 plugs (sprinklers)
Am I correct in my understanding and description?
How does watterage inter into the entire scheme?
Thanks, Benjamin J. "Joe" Browning

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greenbeanman

01-22-2004 17:50:53




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 Re: Re: Difference between volts and amps ??? in reply to Benj. J. Joe Browning, 01-22-2004 15:18:39  
You've pretty well got it.

Watts enter the picture as usage, i.e. how much you can draw from a source (water tower or battery) before it needs refilled.

The electric utility measures in kilowatt hours which is 1000 watts used over a one hour period.
They don't care whether you use it with 10 100 watt lightbulbs over one hour, or 10 50 watt lightbulbs over two hours, just that you have used it. You could even use a 1000 watt iron to iron your jeans for one hour in the dark--all use 1 kilowatt in the examples.

While we don't really think about needing to replace watts into our tractor or auto battery, in essence we should. The more we pull from it, the more gasoline or diesel our engine burns to power the alternator or generator to replace it.

A number of years ago when there was a fuel crunch, the US Postal Service had their carriers drive without lights on. Usually they ran with them on for safety. Can you imagine how much fuel was saved by running 200,000 vehicles 6 days a week without that extra little drag of the alternator? While it doesn't seem like it would be much, I'll bet it did add up. Same with todays autos running with lights on all of the time. Think of the savings if all went dark during daylight hours.

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Lil-Framer

01-22-2004 15:40:14




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 Re: Re: Difference between volts and amps ??? in reply to Benj. J. Joe Browning, 01-22-2004 15:18:39  
Carry it a little further. Watts are drops of water.


On your first example 110 volts X 15 amps would equal 206.25 drops of water (watts) out of each plug (sprinkler) if used equally.

Second example: 110 volts X 20 amps would equal 220 watts out of each plug if used equally.

The second circuit will carry a tolal of 2200 Watts (drops of water) while the first will only carry 1650 drops of water (watts).

Clear as mud, right??

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Benj. J. Joe Browning

01-23-2004 11:19:04




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 Re: Re: Re: Difference between volts and amps ??? in reply to Lil-Framer, 01-22-2004 15:40:14  
Hello Everyone, Would the following example explain watts? Another comparsion to water. A 100 watt usuage would be the same as using 100 gallons of water. Using the comparsion between #14 wire(5/8" water hose) and #12 wire (3/4" water hose) The larger of the two size, either wire or water would allow for more watts or water usage. So the 100 gallons of water would be used faster in the larger wire or hose. Another way would be to say. If you force the use of watts or water in a #14 wire or 5/8" hose to be the same as the #12 or 3/4 hose. You would trip the breaker (or overheat the wire) and split the hose.
Is this correct?
Thanks, Joe

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Benj. J. Joe Browning

01-22-2004 12:09:58




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 Re: Difference between volts and amps ??? in reply to Forgot , 01-22-2004 05:30:50  
Hello Everyone, After reading all the posts, I'm really confused.
Joe



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greenbeanman

01-22-2004 14:27:23




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 Re: Re: Difference between volts and amps ??? in reply to Benj. J. Joe Browning, 01-22-2004 12:09:58  
Ben and others are correct that it is easiest to compare it to water.

Volts are similar to water pressure, i.e. more push. The higher the water tower or the higher the pressure a pump is putting out the more push. Same with higher voltages, more forceful. Fire hose vs. garden hose, more forceful.

Amps are compared to the flow of the water. Think of your ampmeter as being similar to the water meter in a water system.

A 12 volt system has more push, so we use smaller lines than a 6 volt system to deliver the same product. Kind of like a 1" water line using high pressure vs. a 4" water line using very low pressure. They can both deliver the same about of product, one more cost effectively due to smaller lines. Think high voltage lines vs. farmstead lines.

Then end product is watts or a bucket full of water. Neither of which we are really concerned about unless we are thinking of replacing what is in the battery or water tower. Then we have to consider lighting, starting, AC blower and clutch usage, etc. Then we have to consider how big of an alternator we need, or how big of a pump if considering it like water.

Volts multiplied by amps gives usage, i.e. watts.
Watts divided by volts gives how many amps were used.
Watts divided by amps shows how much push there was, i.e. volts.

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Stan(PA)

01-22-2004 14:16:56




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 Re: Re: Difference between volts and amps ??? in reply to Benj. J. Joe Browning, 01-22-2004 12:09:58  
Maybe it would be more clear if you look at it as Magnetism and metal filings. The Magnet (voltage) has the POTENTIAL to pull filings. When the filings are moving, they are like current. Voltage is the POTENTIAL to move electrons, and current is the amount of electrons moving. With DC, the electrons "flow", with AC, they basically vibrate. Hope this clears it up for you.....Stan



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Ben in KY

01-22-2004 12:38:45




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 Re: Re: Difference between volts and amps ??? in reply to Benj. J. Joe Browning, 01-22-2004 12:09:58  
I just finished reading all of the posts and understand your confusion. The water pressure = Volts and the Gallons per minute of flow = AMPS is the best comparison I saw. 30 year Industrial Electronics Tech.



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RAB

01-22-2004 12:09:42




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 Re: Difference between volts and amps ??? in reply to Forgot , 01-22-2004 05:30:50  
Forgot, Not a difference, but perhaps a way of remembering. Just remember, normally, a battery should have volts whether or not it has any current flowing round the circuit. It is ready to push that current when required. If it doesn't, it won't push any current.
And OK for the S/A's, I said NORMALLY. Yes, the current will be very high (for a lead/acid battery) at zero terminal voltage in a short circuit situation, where the full battery voltage is across only the internal resistance!!!
Regards,RAB

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Allan

01-22-2004 08:33:33




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 Re: Difference between volts and amps ??? in reply to Forgot , 01-22-2004 05:30:50  
Forget,

The best analogy I've ever heard is the old garden hose comparison.

The hose is the circuit, the water within that hose is the current and the water pressure at the faucet is the voltage.

Allan



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Frank

01-22-2004 07:46:54




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 Re: Difference between volts and amps ??? in reply to Forgot , 01-22-2004 05:30:50  
Current in amperes = [ V in volts]/ [ R in ohms]

for simple resistance circuits. Even DC gets more complicated when you have motor armatures that are or are not turning, but we are fortunate that we don't have to contend with AC on our old tractor circuitry.



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Bob

01-22-2004 06:30:24




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 Re: Difference between volts and amps ??? in reply to Forgot , 01-22-2004 05:30:50  
Volts = Electrical "pressure".

Amps = Electrical "flow".



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hay

01-22-2004 05:51:34




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 Re: Difference between volts and amps ??? in reply to Forgot , 01-22-2004 05:30:50  
less than 1 amp of current can electrocute a human.



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big fred

01-22-2004 07:22:54




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 Re: Re: Difference between volts and amps ??? in reply to hay, 01-22-2004 05:51:34  
Actually as little as .07 amps can kill a person. The trick is to get that current to flow thru the person. A human is not a very good conductor of electricity, so it takes a fairly healthy voltage to produce a lethal current. Most of that resistance is at the skin, though, so if you make contact in saltwater (like they do in the electric chair) the required voltage is quite a bit lower. Electric chairs typically run around 2000 volts, and are most always lethal.

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old

01-22-2004 07:45:29




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 Re: Re: Re: Difference between volts and amps ??? in reply to big fred, 01-22-2004 07:22:54  
It only takes 1 millionth of an amp to kill



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big fred

01-22-2004 12:21:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Difference between volts and amps in reply to old, 01-22-2004 07:45:29  
I sure hope not. A human offers about a half a megohm of resistance, and it would only take 1/2 volt of potential to result in a millionth of an amp current. Generally anything under 30 volts is considered "not dangerous".



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old

01-22-2004 13:21:56




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Difference between volts and a in reply to big fred, 01-22-2004 12:21:51  
its the amps that kill but it does take 32 volts to get past most people skin. And yes a D size battery could kill you if it was done right. I get my info from the US Navy eletranic classes I had when I was in, I almost got court marsheled because I touched both post of a battery once.



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BIG WOOD

01-22-2004 15:48:11




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Difference between volts a in reply to old, 01-22-2004 13:21:56  
Big differance between ac& dc.



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old

01-22-2004 18:10:57




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Difference between vol in reply to BIG WOOD , 01-22-2004 15:48:11  
Not really volts is volts and amps is amps, AC will kick you off and DC either kicks you or holds you. Both can and do kill if not handled right, but I don't have to worry much any more since I'm retired from do that type of work, did it for about 20 years sure I'm glad I get to play with the old tractors now instead of that 440 3 phase or that 400 cycle AC or even the TVs I use to repair



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John (C-IL)

01-22-2004 05:39:51




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 Re: Difference between volts and amps ??? in reply to Forgot , 01-22-2004 05:30:50  
Volts is the pressure and amps are the volume. You can have 10,000 volts like in static electricity, but with no amperage all you get is a shock. On the other hand, 120 volts and 200 amps which is your home electrical service is a pretty shocking experience.



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Drill

01-22-2004 06:08:52




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 Re: Re: Difference between volts and amps ??? in reply to John (C-IL), 01-22-2004 05:39:51  
If electricity where water, volts would be how many gallons, amps would be the pressure behind it. So 10000 gallons of rain on 10 acres(no pressure) of land won't hurt you, but 1 quart at 10000 psi will cut through steel.



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Bob

01-22-2004 06:46:25




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 Re: Re: Re: Difference between volts and amps ??? in reply to Drill, 01-22-2004 06:08:52  
Drill, I've always heard it the other way around, and think you may have gotten your analogy crossed up. Current (amps) is similar to water volume (gallons per minute), and voltage (volts) is similar to pressure (psi). Just like a large volume of water requires a large diameter pipe, a lot of current or amperage requires a large diameter conductor. You can have high voltage and high pressure in a very small diameter pipe or conductor, but that small diameter won't carry much current or GPM.

The two are related, in that a doubling of the voltage will cause double the current to flow, provided that the resistance doesn't change. That's why it's so important to have good heavy conductors, good grounds and clean connections in the starting circuits of those old 6 volt tractors. You can't control the voltage available, and you can't change the resistance of the starter, so the only thing you do have control over is the resistance in other parts of the circuit. With large conductors (battery cables) and clean connections, the maximum amount of current will be available at the starter.

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John K

01-22-2004 06:37:24




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 Re: Re: Re: Difference between volts and amps ??? in reply to Drill, 01-22-2004 06:08:52  
I agree with John but disagree with Drill. Using water as a referance, voltage equalls pressure and amps equalls flow or gallons per minute. Over 20 years as a Master Electrician.



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greenbeanman

01-22-2004 11:09:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Difference between volts and amps in reply to John K, 01-22-2004 06:37:24  
Using water as a referance, voltage equals pressure and amps equals flow or gallons per minute.

To take that one step further---watts are like the gallons, i.e. the total amount of flow that is caught in a bucket or used.

If anyone is interested in solar--if you have 10 100 watt light bulbs burning for one hour you have consumed 1000 watts or one kilowatt hour.

Using the formula volts X amps = watts (times length of time for watt hours), you can arrive at how many amps you need whether you are using 110 volts or 12 volts. The wattage is what you figure from. Of course you also have to factor in some energy loss as not much of anything is 100% efficient.

For solar needs, convert the amps to watts, figure how long each item will be turned on, then figure total watt hour requirement. From there you figure how many solar panels you will need to catch the watts over the length of day you have.

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