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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Manifold Repair

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Loon Yi

01-24-2004 17:37:07




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Hello, I saw the awesome repair jobs done by george. What want to know is: if brazing to repair a crack, has anyone experienced the filler melting while operating the tractor (dont know the exh. gas temp, or offhand the melt temp of brass)? If welding with oxy-acetylene, can one use one of the cast iron arc rods, with or without flux). I saw that some find nickel rods to work well. Has anyone tried Tig or mig? I am also concerned about warpage caused by welding. I know pre&post heat are recommended, what range of temps are allowable and the time period for cooldown? TIA

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Loon Yi

01-25-2004 22:09:49




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 Re: Manifold Repair in reply to Loon Yi, 01-24-2004 17:37:07  
Hey, I'd like to thank everyone for the comments and advice. George: you do AWESOME work!!!



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george md

01-26-2004 10:32:19




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 Re: Re: Manifold Repair in reply to Loon Yi, 01-25-2004 22:09:49  
Loon Yi ,

I thank you for the compliment ,I've been
practicing for many years. I got started because
of all the great welders and their nickel rod made
such messes of cast I knwe there had to be a better method .And this shop being a machine shop (repair
machine work) , and also engine machine and rebuild ,
I get in all kinds of jobs .

The rod is available from most welding suppy also need the flux to go with the rod . Harris/
welco ios one supplier , Tucker valve seat co in
odessa tx is another . Weldmold co in mich has the rod and says that theirs is machinable as the first two are machinable only with carbide . All
the rod was machinable untill about 5 years ago,
something has changed in the manufacture and now
it's hard . I still have 10 or 15 lbs of the old
rod, I keep that for building parts that need to
be drilled and tapped .
Back in the 50's I heard about introducing copper
into the weld , but I didn't understand it then
and since pretty much forgot about it. george

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Gary-Miss

01-25-2004 12:30:55




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 Re: Manifold Repair in reply to Loon Yi, 01-24-2004 17:37:07  
I have not had success in welding exhaust manifolds by brazing since the heating and natural cooling over time has made this metal into a malleable cast. I have, however, used "cast iron" welding rod which looks like a piece of rusty metal. I have never had a breakage, something I can't say for even stainless steel rod.



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Slowpoke

01-25-2004 01:40:00




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 Re: Manifold Repair in reply to Loon Yi, 01-24-2004 17:37:07  
I did a 9n manifold by brazing, and it seems to be ok. The crack was on the back side and about 2"x 1/16" wide. I drilled the ends, and v'd all the way thru; also cleaned up 1/4" on both sides of the crack. I heated the general area with the torch before using filler rod. If you tractor isn't running right and the exhaust area of the manifold glows red, then maybe the brazing could melt, but under normal circumstances, it won't.
If you try to repair it yourself and are not successful, you've lost a couple of dollars in gas and rods. Unless it's a rare manifold, you don't have much to loose.

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John K

01-24-2004 21:41:15




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 Re: Manifold Repair in reply to Loon Yi, 01-24-2004 17:37:07  
About 25 years ago while hooking up the electrical to a generator that was being installed into a doghouse (oil patch), the rough necks broke the elbow coming off the exhaust manifold. The generator had to be opperational in 8 hours. I took the elbow back to the shop and brazed (brass filler rod) it together temporarily until another one could be located. To my knowledge, the elbow was never replaced.

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george md

01-24-2004 19:49:32




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 Re: Manifold Repair in reply to Loon Yi, 01-24-2004 17:37:07  
Loon Yi,

The material that I use to repair cast iron is cast iron in the form of a square rod and comes in several sizes. This repair is not brazing , it is oxy/acet welding. Exhaust gases are not hot enough to melt the cast and I have never seen it melt the brazing material . The material in arc weld rods is mostly nickel
and not cast iron . Most any form of arc weld on
cast does not work well , not to say that it doesn't
work just not well . I started out 35 + years ago
with the idea that arc would fix most anything but
eventually I learned that to fix cast properly you
will use oxy/acet and cast iron rod . If done properly and ground it is almost impossible to find the weld as the rod is color match and material match to the work.

george

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Richard

01-24-2004 18:08:12




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 Re: Manifold Repair in reply to Loon Yi, 01-24-2004 17:37:07  
Have tried To Weld & Didnt Come Out successful. Yes They Will Warp. Buy new If Possible.



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george md

01-24-2004 20:00:49




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 Re: Re: Manifold Repair in reply to Richard , 01-24-2004 18:08:12  
Richard, Using oxy/acet and cast rod the warpage
is nil because the weld contracts at the same rate as the work . take a look at this site and the links to the sequence of repair pictures.

>Link

>Link george



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Dieselrider

01-25-2004 04:14:59




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 Re: Re: Re: Manifold Repair in reply to george md, 01-24-2004 20:00:49  
George, Where do I find the cast rods for oxy/acet welding? Should the local welding supply have them? Also you were trying to find me some info on spray welding along while back,and I've lost track and contact with you. I am still interested if you can point me in the right direction. Thanks.



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george md

01-26-2004 10:42:53




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Manifold Repair in reply to Dieselrider, 01-25-2004 04:14:59  
Deiselrider , Sorry I didn't get yousome info on spray welding Start with this number and I should have some others. Eutectic has been bought by MG and moved to wisconsin new number

1-800-558-8524

US Alloys (Steve)

1-800-325-1568

Somewhere I have the numbers for postle and colmonoy , that will take a little digging .

george



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donmdmisch13355@yahoo.com

01-25-2004 07:12:48




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Manifold Repair in reply to Dieselrider, 01-25-2004 04:14:59  
For cast iron filler material, I have used old (broken in two) piston rings. Good quality and easy to get.



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edwinb

01-25-2004 11:30:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Manifold Repair in reply to donmdmisch13355@yahoo.com, 01-25-2004 07:12:48  
I saw cast piston rings used 20 years ago repair still perfect 10000 hours on the engine since .Alas that man is now dead what flux should be used as I want to do one myself now



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Alberta Mike

01-25-2004 13:05:30




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Manifold Repair in reply to edwinb, 01-25-2004 11:30:35  
I recently read in an old farm magazine from the 50's that you can make your own cast iron welding rod by using piston rings (like you said) but first wrap fine copper wire around the ring, then use is with your oxy-acetylene set up. I'm not sure what the copper did, they did say but I can't remember. I don't think it acted as a flux but did something else, maybe to do with adhesion I'm not sure.

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