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Question on Selling freon

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Ray

02-24-2004 17:19:37

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I've got a few cases of freon 12 left over in
my farm shop,just sold my last tractor that used
it.Back when I bought it there were no regulations on owning it.I though about putting
it on ebay but not sure what is required or if
I can legally sell it.Anyone familiar with this
stuff and the regulations?

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T_Bone

02-25-2004 06:14:13

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Re: Question on Selling freon in reply to Ray, 02-24-2004 17:19:37

Hi Ray,

R-12, Freon is a Dupont trade name, will do nothing because cause you some serious headaches if the EPA sees your ad as now your are storing and selling a hazardous chemical. Just depends on if there watching when you advertise it. Of course while at your shop, I'm sure they will also find other code viloations! The grace period ended in 1996 for R12 and 2001 for R22.

Me I would buy R-406 as it's a direct replacement for R-12 systems and cost effective over converting to R134 as it compatable with the existing R12 system componets whereas R-134 is not.

R-406 has very close condensing and evaporator properities as R-12 and will give the same refrigeration effect as the old R-12. R-406 Sells for about $2/lb.

T_Bone

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Eric

02-26-2004 03:57:05

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Re: Re: Question on Selling freon in reply to T_Bone, 02-25-2004 06:14:13

where do you buy R406 Have heard of Products such as Duracool, is 406 the same thing Thanks.

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T_Bone

02-26-2004 06:54:18

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Re: Re: Re: Question on Selling freon in reply to Eric, 02-26-2004 03:57:05

Hi Eric,

I don't keep up with trade names, Duracool sounds like a GM product.

Any refrigeration supply house will carry R406.

T_Bone

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tlak

02-26-2004 09:34:09

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Question on Selling freon in reply to T_Bone, 02-26-2004 06:54:18

I called several places on R406. Nobody carrys it here. Central KY

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T_Bone

02-26-2004 10:00:15

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Question on Selling freon in reply to tlak, 02-26-2004 09:34:09

Try Johnstone Supply in Lousiville,KY... They carry it.

T_Bone

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Tony

02-25-2004 08:26:02

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Re: Re: Question on Selling freon in reply to T_Bone, 02-25-2004 06:14:13

R-12 Freon is only illegal to manufacture. It can still be sold to licensed parties. It can still be packaged by those who have it in bulk form.

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T-Bone...So2 Replacement?

02-25-2004 07:00:55

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Re: Re: Question on Selling freon in reply to T_Bone, 02-25-2004 06:14:13

T-Bone;
Is there any replacement for So2 (Sulphur Dioxide)refrigerant?
Back to the R-12 discussion: Last year we had an auction for my Father-in-Law's trucking business, and the auctioneer would NOT sell the 30# tanks of R-12 that were in the shop. He cited a federal law that prevented him from doing so.

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T_Bone

02-25-2004 09:38:06

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Re: Re: Re: Question on Selling freon in reply to T-Bone...So2 Replacement?, 02-25-2004 07:00:55

Boy Rauville, what you trying to do? Show our age? They haven't used R-764 for a refrigerant for many many moons. R-764 would hold moister and seperate from the oil easy, ie; a very poor refrigerant.

I was around some at a apple juice company (used a perservitive) and I was horse for 3mths afterwards.

T_Bone

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Thanks T-Bone...

02-26-2004 05:01:12

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Question on Selling freon in reply to T_Bone, 02-25-2004 09:38:06

I was just curious...I have an old GE Refrigerator that is charged with 1.75# of So2. It is still working and cooling OK, but I wondered about replacing the refrigerant with something a little less noxious. I hate to start fooling around with it, and come out smelling like rotten eggs.
Thanks...Rauville

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Fred Milner

02-24-2004 19:01:54

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Re: Question on Selling freon in reply to Ray, 02-24-2004 17:19:37

I pump freon for a demolition company all the time. You can take the cans to your local supply house and they will take care of it for you. R-12 is selling back to the factory for recycling for $12.00 per pound now. Yours is in the can so you should be able to get a little more for it as new. Around here it is $20.00 a pound for new. It is not really new but is recycled from the factory. They will take the R-22 but don't pay for it. I pump about 3 to 4 thousand pounds a year now. Most is R-22. The automotive shops aroud you would like to get it also. The EPA is not looking for people like you, but the people that handle a lot of it. If you had several hundred pounds it would be a little different. Sell it to the local auto shop.

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John

02-24-2004 18:40:46

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Re: Question on Selling freon in reply to Ray, 02-24-2004 17:19:37

I would have to agree with Bob on this one. It is not against the law to sell it. It is against the law to make it or buy it without proper EPA certificate or as it is some times called a refrigeration licence.
As long as the person you sell it to is licenced and can prove it there is no crime.

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Bob

02-24-2004 18:17:36

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Re: Question on Selling freon in reply to Ray, 02-24-2004 17:19:37

I am certified in both mobile and stationary refrigeration, and as far as I know, you can legally sell exixting R-12, but only to a certificate holder. Just a week or two ago, I noticed a bunch of sellers with R-12 on ebay. They state a copy of the buyer's freon certificate must be provided before shipment. It sells for in the neighborhood of $14.00 to $20.00 for each 12 or 14 ounce can.

If you get into ebay's menu system far enough, there is a section detailing what can and cannot be sold on ebay, and what procedures must be followed.

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Hal/WA

02-24-2004 18:01:55

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Re: Question on Selling freon in reply to Ray, 02-24-2004 17:19:37

I have about 20 cans of freon 12 on a shelf in my storage building and also have wondered what I should do with it. A few years ago, I was told that it was fairly valuable, as supposedly it is illegal to manufacture it in this country. R-12 is still out there, but it may be reclaimed refrigerant from old systems.

I always thought R-12 worked better than the current refrigerant. I understand the theories about environmental damages from R-12, but wonder if the current refrigerants are really that much better or if there ever really was a threat at all. But the enviroNazis have been listened to, and it would not surprise me if it was illegal to sell the old cans of refrigerant. And some of the penalties for violating environmental regulations are truly outrageous and frightening. So my Freon has just been setting on the shelf.

I hope someone knows about the legality of selling the old Freon or who to ask for a legal determination. It seems stupid to me to just leave the cans of Freon on the shelf and not in use in systems that would use it properly. But those systems are getting fewer and fewer as time goes on. I would like to sell the R-12, but sure don't want to risk getting in trouble.

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Dh in Carolina

02-24-2004 18:41:12

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Re: Re: Question on Selling freon in reply to Hal/WA, 02-24-2004 18:01:55

I work with freon in my HVAC business and to buy freon 12 or any other freon you need a certification from the EPA. The cost of 12 now is somewhere around $65.00 per pound with the federal excise tax on it. The problem you have now is all new autos or tractors use freon 134a and no one wants small cans. If it was in a 30# cylinder you could move it. I don't know if you have to be certified to sell it but you do to buy it. Another problem is you have to keep records as to where you use it, recover it and so on. You might go to a HVAC company and get more advice about it. There is a lot of people who still use freon 12 in commerical equipment. Hope this helps some. DH

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Tony

02-24-2004 19:43:00

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Re: Re: Re: Question on Selling freon in reply to Dh in Carolina, 02-24-2004 18:41:12

Hi, how much would R-12 in the 30 lb. cylinders go for? Is the $65 per pound a good number. If so, do you know who is buying. I have no idea what my company has it priced at, and we have not been trying to sell it, but we have some cylinders left. Luckily, not enough to have to continue paying the tax, but we do have some cylinders I could probably move if I wanted.

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RB/CT

02-24-2004 19:24:49

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Re: Re: Re: Question on Selling freon in reply to Dh in Carolina, 02-24-2004 18:41:12

Plenty of people are looking for Freon 12, even in cans. You don't see it even at swap meets anymore. I have a 30lb for my 92 Plymouth Voyaguer. During the summer at a flea market, my friend bought two l lb cans for a dollar each, the person selling them didn't know their worth. Mine is new, this was new also. R-134 could never keep up with Freon 12, especially in the hot Southern States. Some vehicles with Freon 12 throw out cold air in the thirties. No, mine is not for sale.

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Hal/WA

02-25-2004 20:39:48

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Question on Selling freon in reply to RB/CT, 02-24-2004 19:24:49

I like the swap meet idea. I have some other stuff that I had thought of taking to the Early Ford V8 Club swap meet they hold every summer and I will add the R-12 cans to the list of things I will take. Thanks!

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Craig

02-25-2004 16:29:27

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Question on Selling freon in reply to RB/CT, 02-24-2004 19:24:49

R-134a can blow cold air too. when it is 85* outside, my 88 plymouth voager blows 33* air on r-134a (134a system from 95 van swapped into mine). The interesting thing is that it did not blow as cold when the system was in the doner van. the reson it blows colder in my van is that mine didn't have any place to hook up the sensors that the new system had. there was only a place for the low pressure sensor. I spliced in the Hi PSI cut-out in series with the factory low PSI cut out. there was no place to connect the temperature sensor so i just left it hanging there. the A/C runs continuously when you turn it on instead of cycling. after a long trip sometime the evaporator freezes over, but i just leave the fan on and turn off the A/C too fix that.

the difference betreen r-12 and r-134a is that r-134a is not as effecient. it take bigger components to get the same job done.

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Ray

02-24-2004 20:10:01

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Question on Selling freon in reply to RB/CT, 02-24-2004 19:24:49

At a big refergeration company near me they had
large tanks (like torch oxygen tanks) filled with freon 12 in the lab for testing.They had
a chain that went through the holes in the caps
from tank to tank to secure it.Someone unscrewed
the tanks and one morning they found 6 tank caps hanging there with the chain still through them.

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