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mending fences

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Farmer in the D

04-18-2004 09:54:51




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I would like to re fence my boundary and include a 32 foot easement I have with a property owner behind me. They are landlocked by the location of the property but have at least three other properties to ask for access. My problem is if I continue the easement I have to fence both sides of the 32 foot run which doubles the cost for that side. This would be for a strip I can't use as pasture and end up mowing instead. It is at the edge of my property. I would give them 6 months or a year to do it so it would not affect the current growing season. Animals are not an option on that strip for grass control because I am always putting the gate back up after someone goes through. Has anyone ever ended an easement? I would like to hear what problems you encountered. If my fence will cost me $3 to re do I don't want to pay $5 or more just for my own 32 foot strip. Thanks for your input.

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Jerry/MT

04-18-2004 21:56:43




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 Re: mending fences in reply to Farmer in the Dells (WI), 04-18-2004 09:54:51  
It all depends on what the written easement says. People can also get a prescriptive easement by repeated use of a property over a certain period of time without you challenging their use.

But really, you should be asking this question of an attorney who is familiar with property law, not in a forum like this. The laws are different in every state.



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Burrhead

04-18-2004 19:08:02




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 Re: mending fences in reply to Farmer in the Dells (WI), 04-18-2004 09:54:51  
I would almost bet the other landowner has a deed to and easement across your property.

The way a easement deed works in my area of Texas-- my property deed would not show the easement but the other landowner will have a deed for the ROW he is using that has been deeded to him from the previous owner of your property that transferred the ROW to the other(his) property to begin with.

If I wanted to have a good neighbor and wanted to be a good neighbor I would just fence off to the established easement and let it go. You said the realtor explained it to you before the purchase did'nt you???

If you still just absolutely have to have the 32' why don't you fence the whole thing and put cattle guards at each end instead of gates. That way cattle and horses won't cross it and there is no gate to be left open or closed when driving thru.

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kyhayman

04-19-2004 07:13:29




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 Re: Re: mending fences in reply to Burrhead, 04-18-2004 19:08:02  
Thats kind of what I did (on a different farm than I posted about before). When I bought the place it had a 60' right of way to another farm. It was along a boundary fence and the guy had to open 2 gates to get to his palce. No problem for me but he was tired of opening the gates. He offered to put in 2 cattle guards. I made him a counter offer in that I would buy the wire to fence off the inside of the easement if he would get the posts and build the fence. I got a good fence (the old line fence was falling down and would take serious dozer work existing landowner on the other side of that line has no stock and has removed all of their fences.

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Burrhead

04-19-2004 16:33:34




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 Re: Re: Re: mending fences in reply to kyhayman, 04-19-2004 07:13:29  
Sounds like yer a pretty good neighbor. I try to be a good neighbor anywhere I have land or lease grazing or hay grounds.

The only boundary or easement problems I've ever had was when yuppies from town decided to buy the ground adjoining me. Know-it-all yuppies moving outtuh town get slam stupid some times.

I guess they figger if they raise enuff ruckus with you or send enough certified letters a country hick should cave in and do whatever they want.

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Bill in Florida

04-18-2004 16:19:26




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 Re: mending fences in reply to Farmer in the Dells (WI), 04-18-2004 09:54:51  
In my county, if a person cuts up their property and sells a "locked up" portion, they provide the easement. However legally, the property owner whose land provides the most direct route to the major road must provide the easement. You are in a bind becouse you've been providing the easement and your county comission most likely would not want to force your neighbors to do something you've been doing. An easement, however, doesn't have to be a straight line. You could provide an easement along the outer boarder of your property and not fence the "outer side". You could also share an easement between the you and one of your neighbors, thus loosing less land. What ever you do, good luck. -Bill

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PEMartin PA

04-18-2004 16:08:05




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 Re: mending fences in reply to Farmer in the Dells (WI), 04-18-2004 09:54:51  
I have a 500 ft right of way(road)through my neighbors property to my property/house which otherwise would be landlocked. The right of way is listed on MY DEED and describes where it starts and how wide it is. IT IS NOT MENTIONED ON HIS DEED. In addition, the right of way agreement is registered separately from my deed with our county and it gives the fine details of that agreement. I maintain the road.

As I understand it, I, as the present right of way owner, am the one who controls the access and determines who can travel over the road and when, not the property owner. I am, as the present owner of the right of way, the only one who can put a gate across the road, not the property owner. I believe that I could even prevent the property owner from using the right of way to reach portions of his property because he supposidly already has access to all of his property through his adjacent acreage.

Imagine if it were not so and the property owner could put locked gates and other inconveniences across my right of way just because he didn't like the kind of car I drive. Or think if the property owner could start building condo's and using my right of way for access to them. I don't think so!

It is up to the property owner to know about easements and rights of way through his property and if you are buying property, you should ask. Easements and rights of way should be shown on a survey map of the land. Rights of way transfer with the property when a property with a right of way to it is sold. My right of way is dated August 21, 1945

Rights of way can be dissolved only when it can be shown that it is no longer needed. It's very confusing, but there should be a legal agreement registered somewhere. Deeds and other property info are public record documents and that info should be available to anyone. If it is not registered with your local government, it probably isn't worth much and may not really exist. There usually is an exception if an access has been used openly for so many years. In PA it's 21 years before it becomes legit. But that's another can of worms.

If you wish to email take (remove) from my email address.

PEM

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TomH

04-18-2004 14:31:15




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 Re: mending fences in reply to Farmer in the Dells (WI), 04-18-2004 09:54:51  
You can ask the neighbors it they'll provide an access road, but I doubt the neighbors will agree. Why would they? An easement is nothing but trouble.

If all the other property owner uses the easement for is occasional hunting, just put a gate at each end and let them drive through the pasture; there's no reason for you to mow or otherwise maintain it. They might try to tell you that you have some obligation to mow it, but that's nonsense; they have a right to maintain it but you don't have to do anything except let them cross your property.

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TomH

04-18-2004 14:34:03




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 Re: Re: mending fences in reply to TomH, 04-18-2004 14:31:15  
By the way, they have a legal obligation to close the gate if they open it. If they're going through and leaving it open, you should talk to a lawyer.



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kyhayman

04-18-2004 14:29:23




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 Re: mending fences in reply to Farmer in the Dells (WI), 04-18-2004 09:54:51  
I would be very, very careful and get a lawyer versed in teh laws of your state. My family has been in an ongoing legal battle for over 100 years on a piece of property that my dad now owns.

In a nutshell, it is a land locked tract that iwhen my ancestors bought it there were conflicting surveys as to where the boundary should be. It was settled at trial and a judge ordered an easement accrosss farmer X. In the 1950's farmer X's decendents closed the easement. My ancesters went to court and got an injunction stating the validity of the origional court order. The easement appears on no ones deed but is filed with the deeds as a court order in the county clerks office. It has been a source of trial and trouble. It apparently ended in the 1970s when one of my ancestors and one of farmer X's heirs (who were the last direct decendents) got into first a shouting match and then a shooting match. It ended with a death and prison sentence.

Last year the issue reared its head again when we found the easement closed and cable accross it. The land owner was not aware of any easement. It took a court order and the sheriff to open the easemetn again. Also, here, the holder of the easement is under no compulsion to fence any of it.

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Chris-se-ILL

04-18-2004 16:05:42




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 Re: Re: mending fences in reply to kyhayman, 04-18-2004 14:29:23  
We have had several neighbors and friends that have had to seek out legal recourse to solve access and boundary disputes. One landowner denied a farmer access and the court went back to records from the mid-1800's to show that the landowner's driveway was actually an old county roadway. The landowner {he is also the one that closed the access} had a garage built at the end of the driveway. The judge told the landowner that he could either allow access to the farmer or he could move his garage off the county road! The landowner opted to allow access!

We own a boundry line along one field that has been in dispute with another family since my G-G-Grandfather bought in the late 1800's. No one is real hotheaded about it, but there have been a lot of words and grumbling about it.

I would say that the original poster needs to contact a good attorney! If the neighbor has access by other means {that is not an undue hardship} then the landowner can close the second access {easement} regardless of whether the other family owned it previously or not.

Get a lawyer!

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Ray

04-18-2004 12:43:30




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 Re: mending fences in reply to Farmer in the Dells (WI), 04-18-2004 09:54:51  
In an easement you basically sell your property
for very little.You own it,pay taxes on it,but
can't use it for anything.The easement holder
can come on your property ,day or night anytime
he wants.However I have seen easements set aside
by the county commissioners at a public hearing.They actually closed a farm drive I had
an easement to without my knowledge,But i got
a lawyer who said that legally I had to be
notified by registered mail because I was
a neighboring land owner.They then reversed it,
and didn't try to close it again.

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mj

04-18-2004 12:06:50




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 Re: mending fences in reply to Farmer in the Dells (WI), 04-18-2004 09:54:51  
There are a lot of Federal and non-Federal 'rights of way' and 'easements' here in W. Colo. As I understand it, a 'right of way' gives the holder just that; a 'right of way' to access the property for a legitimate reason (such as canal maintenance) but the property belongs to the landowner and he pays the taxes on it. The holder must use it or lose it; there is a specific timeline in place for the 'abandonment' rule.... An easement, on the other hand, gives the same right of access but the holder, for all practical purposes, owns the property . Also, the holder pays the taxes. I have one of each on my place and would like to hear about the outcome of your situation.

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Nebraska Cowman

04-18-2004 11:42:48




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 Re: mending fences in reply to Farmer in the Dells (WI), 04-18-2004 09:54:51  
I'm with sid on this one. an easment only gives them a right to use the property to drive across. NOT to leave the gate open. I'd have a little chat with the easment owner. you might need to padlock the gate if unauterized parties are using it. No need for you to build a 2nd fence. Another option would be to outright sell them the land and move the fence. But if you opt for the latter charge them plenty.

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Sid

04-18-2004 11:04:47




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 Re: mending fences in reply to Farmer in the Dells (WI), 04-18-2004 09:54:51  
First question, does the law say you have to fence off the easment? Is the easement in the title to your property? I ask because in a couple of cases I am aware of the agreement is to allow acces but as I understand there is no leagal paperwork just a neighbor telling the other neighbor sure you can go through here. If you have to fence it just because somebody is alway leaving the gate open then in my opinion someone is not being responsable in regards to your property and that would be just cause to end the easement agreement if possible. If they in fact own the easment then it seems to me they should be responsable for one half the cost of the fence between you and they and you should not be responsible for any of the upkeep on that piece of property. Just my thought which carry no legal weight. I am interested in the out come of your situation.

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Farmer in the Dells (WI)

04-18-2004 13:25:36




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 Re: Re: mending fences in reply to Sid, 04-18-2004 11:04:47  
As a follow up, The land belongs to me. The other landowner has an easement with me for access. I was shown the corner marker by the realtor before I bought the property. I was never shown or know of any legal document to exist with regards to the easement. The only thing I was told is the other owners have an easement with me to access the land behind me. They were (or their family was) the owners of my farm at one time and kept the land behind me for hunting. The other accesses are all from paved roads two of which are from the same highway as the current one. They would just be entering farther down the road on the other side of my fence. I am doing this to repair an existing boundary fence. It is falling down and I would like to ring the property with a better usable fence for animals.

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john in la

04-18-2004 14:40:59




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 Re: Re: Re: mending fences in reply to Farmer in the Dells (WI), 04-18-2004 13:25:36  
I have to agree with Paul on this. If he has access to his property from the state or county road he does not need to be crossing your land. I would investigate your deed carefully because he probably just has a verbal agreement with the former owner. If the former owner is his family that is even more understandable. I can not see a judge allowing a easement agreement with other access and if you protest it you may even be able to get the easement reversed if one exist. Case in point..... A neighbor of my cousin's had a drive easement across another neighbors land because he was locked in. The land owner then bought some land behind him giving him road frontage on a different road. The first neighbor took the second to court and had the easement removed because he had another way in that did not cross others land. Your state rules will lay out easement rights for your area.

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Paul in Mich.

04-18-2004 14:16:45




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 Re: Re: Re: mending fences in reply to Farmer in the Dells (WI), 04-18-2004 13:25:36  
Farmer, At first reading of your original post I was under the impression that your neighbor's land was locked in with no access. In that case, he has a right to access his property. However, in reading your response to Sid, I gather that the property does have access from another road which is not as convenient as an easment you may supply him, thus making it easier and shorter distance to his land. In that case, unless it is specified in your deed that you must grant him access through your property, you have no obligation to grant him an easement or convenient access to his property. He can go around. You have a right to fence your property, but why build 2 fences at double the cost just because you cant control someone elses comming and goings across your land. If he has access from another road, then he should use it. The thing to do is have an attorney review your deed to see what it specifies as to easement to your neighbor. You may have a simple verbal agreement which isnt worth the paper it is written on.

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