over running clutch, use with live or non-live p-t

I'm still not clear on this live vs. non-live PTO thing as it relates to the overrunning clutch. I have a 1973 Ford 2000, 3 cylinder gas tractor. The clutch has to be engaged for the PTO to run. It can be used when the transmission is in neutral, but the clutch has to be engaged.

Here's where I'm not so sure about the live / non-live thing. If I use my bush hog without the overrunning clutch, the tractor is definitely pushed when going downhill. I wouldn't consider bush hogging my steep hills without the overrunning clutch. However, when I depress my clutch pedal, the bush hog immediately stops pushing the tractor. The PTO definitely is not permanently attached to the differential gears.

So I don't get the live / non-live thing. I just know that if you can feel any pushing of your tractor when using your bush hog, you need an overrunning clutch.

Good luck,

Tom

Going down hill, the hill is pushing your tractor, not the hog.

I'm not so familiar with 1000 series Fords, but if you have a single-stage clutch then the rear axle & the pto shaft are married whenever the pto lever is 'in gear'. It does not really matter where the clutch is; if one (rear axle/pto) is stopped, both are stopped and if one is moving both are moving. They are physically locked together when pto is in gear.

If you have a light mower & good brakes, you might not notice the flywheel effect so much? Or, you have a 2-stage clutch & just don't realize it?

--->Paul

You have hit the nail on the head when you said that the facts don't add up. That's my exact point. I've read many posts that explain the single stage / two stage clutch and live vs. non-live PTO. Those posts don't agree with the situation on my tractor.

I can absolutely guarantee you that the bush hog pushes the tractor when I go down hill. The hills are so steep I always throttle down when coming down them so the engine will hold the tractor back (I also use the brakes a little bit, but not much since I don't want the wheels to skid). I have used the bush hog with and without an over-running clutch. With the over-running clutch, no push. Without the over-running clutch, scary push.

It is also a fact that I use my PTO for my post hole digger. Obviously, when digging holes the rear axles are not turning.

So, having said that, I still don't get live vs. non-live PTO.

Thanks for any help that you can give to me to help me understand this better.

Tom in TN

For your last issue - neutral doesn't count. Your rear axle is not engaged, so live/ not live does not matter. This is only an issue when the tractor is in a gear. On a transmission or non-live pto there is only one clutch to do 2 jobs, so _when_ you are in gear _and_ you are using the pto, any use of the clutch will stop _both_ actions. If either your tranny or the pto lever is in neutral, then it is no longer a part of the system & will not be affected. but if _both_ pto & tranny are in a gear, then they are pysically locked together & when one is turning, both are. If one is standing still, they both are standing still. But this only applies if you have both the pto lever & the gearshift lever _in gear_.

The over-running coupler feature of a live pto only shows up when you _use_ the pto clutch, push it in. At that point, the tractor axle & the pto shaft are no longer connected to each other, and can be doing different things. You are able to keep one in gear & active, while putting the other in or out of gear, or stopping it from turning.

In your case, you get to the hill, leave everything in gear, and cut the throttle back. The mower continues to drive your tractor, because you have not released the pto clutch. Your add-on over-running clutch will kick in in this case. Kind of an odd quirk in the way you are using this. I understand it, but boy that really doesn't come up for 99% of the people. Sounds like your hill is an accident waitting to happen.

Live pto means there are 2 clutches on your tractor, one for the transmission, one for the pto. Non-live or transmission pto means you have only one clutch for both operations.

You are using your over running coupler as a ratchet for rapid engine deacceleration with no clutch use at all, which is kind of an odd situation that doesn't come up too often. Well, actually people use them that way for the newer hyd braking ptos which try to stop the pto too fast & break on a heavy load. Same idea.

--->Paul

A live pto already has 2 seperate clutches for the axle & the pto so this feature is 'built in' to the design.

--->Paul