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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Charging system

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Carl Stacy

04-30-2004 17:43:16




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My 1949 Ford N has a charging problem. I have chased all the wiring looking for shorts but found nothing, I had the alternator rebuilt, bought a new resistor. The thing still will not charge. The alternator has a built in voltage regulator. I haven't located any fuses. are there any fuses to be found? Any suggestions? I am at my wits end. Thanks for any help.




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Mike (WA)

05-01-2004 15:23:53




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 Re: Charging system in reply to Carl Stacy, 04-30-2004 17:43:16  
There's some pretty smart Jose's on this board, but they're all floundering around because they don't know what king of alternator you have. Find the number stamped onto the alternator (location depends on model), and post it- they'll figure it out pronto.



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Bob

04-30-2004 19:17:37




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 Re: Charging system in reply to Carl Stacy, 04-30-2004 17:43:16  
If you have a 3-wire Delco, the large stud on the back should read battery voltage.

The #2 push-on terminal on the alternator should also read battery voltage.

With the ignition switch on, the terminal labelled #1, which is fed through an idiot light, a resistor which replaces the idiot light, or a diode should read NEAR battery voltage.

With the engine running, above idle, the alternator should be putting out between 13.5 and 14.5 Volts.

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Hermit

04-30-2004 19:06:21




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 Re: Charging system in reply to Carl Stacy, 04-30-2004 17:43:16  
I know the resistor you're talking about, in place of the indicator lights to keep the battery from discharging while the engine isn't running. I've also had the problem of not charging after disconnecting the battery or alternator for long a period of time (like over winter). I found I had to ground the field windings to get the alternator charging. There's a procedure concerning inserting a screwdriver into the alternator end frame and pressing the grounding tab. Pictures and a detailed description are in most Motors or Chiltons manuals. I don't know if it has to do with setting up a magnetic field or kick starting the voltage regulator. Either way, it works for me.

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john in la

05-01-2004 03:03:51




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 Re: Re: Charging system in reply to Hermit, 04-30-2004 19:06:21  
The thing you are calling a resistor is not a resistor. A resistor reduces the voltage across it. You are thinking of a one way diode. It alowes elec. only one way.
Now if he is also calling a one way diode a resistor OK I know what that is.



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Hermit

05-01-2004 15:23:33




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 Re: Re: Re: Charging system in reply to john in la, 05-01-2004 03:03:51  
Respectfully, I did mean resistor. Please remember, the alternator discharge indicator light (idiot light) is nothing more than a resistor that transforms the resulting voltage drop into light and heat while the regular resistor only gives off heat. So if the tractor doesn't have an indicator light, a resistor can be substituted as long as it has sufficient resistance (ohms) to prevent the alternator's diode trio from powering the coil after the ignition switch is opened, thereby allowing the engine to shutdown instead of running on. Of course, a properly rated diode performs the same function when a reverse bias causes a similar voltage drop. Our conceptual difference may be based on how our individual tractors have their electrical systems set up. Please have a good day and a better tomorrow.

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john in la

05-01-2004 21:32:48




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Charging system in reply to Hermit, 05-01-2004 15:23:33  
And now that you put it that way YES if I think about it that does make cense. Excuse me for thinking you were calling one part by a different name.
I have never heard of any one using a resistor in this spot before but that is a idea that would be great for the electrically challenged people we see here. By telling some one to install a resistor you do not have to worry how they hook it up. With a one way diode you have to make sure they understand which ends go which way.
Thanks for the input and education in different ways to wire some thing. You know you get stuck on one way and that's all you can see; but then some one comes along and shows you a different and some times a better way.
Have a great day..... ..John

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john in la

04-30-2004 18:30:48




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 Re: Charging system in reply to Carl Stacy, 04-30-2004 17:43:16  
Well here I go trying to read minds again.

Lets see if you have a alternator it must be a 12 volt conversion. Since it has a internal regulator it is probably a Delco 10si. You may have a 1 or 2 or 3 wire set up. Lets see I guess 3 wire.
You put in a new resistor????? Lets see I do not know of any resistor in the charging system. Are you talking about the resistor for the coil????? Has nothing to do with charging but is only resistor I can think of in a 12 volt conversion.

See where I am going. Tell me am I warm so far. Try to let me know what you have. If I tell you some thing for one system it may not work on another. If you do not know can you take a picture. I would like to help but you got to at least give me some direction.

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Carl Stacy

05-01-2004 17:33:42




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 Re: Re: Charging system in reply to john in la, 04-30-2004 18:30:48  
I have a one wire 12 volt conversion Delco alternator and the resistor in question is between the alternator and the coil. I have a hot wire coming to generator and the ground is grounded on the body of the alternator. Thanks for all your help.



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john in la

05-02-2004 16:37:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Charging system in reply to Carl Stacy, 05-01-2004 17:33:42  
OK lets see if we can try to figure out your problem. Your alternator back should look like this.

third party image


While most call it a one wire most conversions use a two wire set up. The one wire is very expensive.
Yours should have a jumper wire from the #2 post to the battery post. This tells the alternator when to shut off as not to over charge. If it is a true 1 wire it will not have this wire.
It should have a 10 gauge wire from the battery post to the starter solenoid or battery. This is the wire that charges the battery. Start the motor. Use your volt meter to check volts at battery - and + post. Should be 13-14 volts with running. If only 11-12 volts it is not charging.

Now put red lead of volt meter on battery post on back of alternator and black lead to ground. Is the reading the same. If it is 13-14 here but only 11-12 at battery the 10 gauge wire has a break. If it still reads 11-12 volts at alternator it is not charging.

Now take a jumper wire from battery + post and touch it to the #1 FIELD post on alternator. Did it start charging. If yes your regulator is not leaking enough to start alternator charging. If this is the case you will need to go to the 3 wire set up. If so post back and we will advise how to hook it up. This could be a very real possibility if you did not tell the man that rebuilt the alternator that you were not using the field wire. He would have put in a 3 wire regulator.

Do not worry about the resistor. It has nothing to do with charging. It is there to protect the coil. Your system is 12 volt. If you did not change coil at conversion time it is still 6 volt. If you did change the coil you probably got a 8 volt coil. The resistor is there to knock volts down from 12 volts to what your coil needs to operate. If you supply a full 12 volts to coil it will over heat and burn up.

Post back on a new thread your findings if you need some more help. OK guys...Jump in here and add any info I may have forgot.

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carl

05-03-2004 09:48:55




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Charging system in reply to john in la, 05-02-2004 16:37:41  
I ran a new jumper wire from the alternator ground to the motor block and replaced the belt and I now have a working charging system. I wish to thank everyone who took time to give all their help. I think it was the ground giving me trouble all along.



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