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Boycott SHELL and buy AMERICAN

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Outsourced

05-03-2004 12:23:53

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Shell Oil company has signed a BILLION dollar deal with companies in India to provide IT and other HI tech jobs. Please dont buy products from companies that send our jobs over seas.

Thanks
A future Unemployed Shell Worker

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Paul in Mich

05-03-2004 17:55:24

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Re: Boycott SHELL and buy AMERICAN in reply to Outsourced, 05-03-2004 12:23:53

Outsourced, You and everyone who has responded has missed a very essential point here, and that by working for Shell Oil Co.,that you are an "insourced" job. Shell oil Co. is a Dutch company, not American. Therefore, if you areaemployed by Shell, you have benefited from the same set of circumstances to which you now ask everyone to boycott. Its easy to focus on the jobs that get outsourced overseas, but statistically, we insource more jobs than we outsource. When you consider all the foreign companies who have manufacturing facilities here in the U.S., such as Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen, Shell oil, BP (British Petroleum) ABB, numerous electronics companies, etc., we import a lot of jobs here in the U.S. As for taxation, corporations, in essence, don't pay taxes anyway, so why levy them on corporations in the first place. The end user, (customer) always pays corporate taxes. There are no exceptions to this. The taxes levied on corporations are simply passed on to the consumer just the same as any other cost of doing business. I'm sorry you are losing your job, but boycotting Shell isnt going to improve matters. There are three things aside from demand that determines whether your job is needed. 1: CAn you make it better. 2: Can you make it (deliver) faster. 3: Can you make it cheaper. If you can't answer yes to all three of these questions, then its a matter of time until your job will be going elsewhere. No company exists for the purpose of providing anyone a job. They exist to provide investors a positive return on their money. Your job is only relevent to that end. My job is no different. No job or skill is immune to its demise, whether by obsolesence or by being outsourced. We must always be ready and willing to reinvent ourselves, lest we be left in the dust. The majority of jobs that existed 40 years ago do not even exist today. Telephone operators, for example are a thing of the past. Office stenos and typists have been replaced by computer specialists. I can go on and on, but the bottom line is that we live in a world today where goods can be made half way around the globe and be delivered to the customer in less than 48 hours. We do the same. It isnt all one way, its a global economy, and we're part of it.

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john in la

05-03-2004 19:32:12

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Re: Re: Boycott SHELL and buy AMERICAN in reply to Paul in Mich, 05-03-2004 17:55:24

Do not think shell is just a Dutch company any more. When they became MOTIVA they merged with Texaco and a Saudi company. Lot of Arabic money in shell now.

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Paul in Mich

05-05-2004 20:33:02

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Re: Re: Re: Boycott SHELL and buy AMERICAN in reply to john in la, 05-03-2004 19:32:12

John, That still makes Shell a foreign company operating in the U.S., employing American workers, thus insourcing jobs. I don't know how many, but if you count everyone who makes Shell operate, from execs to transportation, down to store operators and clerks, I'd say they are a major employer within the boundaries of the U.S.A.

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tlak

05-03-2004 18:30:17

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Re: Re: Boycott SHELL and buy AMERICAN in reply to Paul in Mich, 05-03-2004 17:55:24

If two companies produce the same widget and one is tax free because they produce in the US and one is import taxed because they out source who will be able to sell their widget? They couldnt past the cost on to the consumer because of competitive pricing.
Most of the companies you named who insource sell their product mostly in the US.
I dont think our country has to go down to the wages and lifestyles of other countries to compete.
Somewhere I saw a list of outsoure companies compared to still in and you had to dig through the list to find in.

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Thomas Loecken

05-04-2004 08:37:03

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Boycott SHELL and buy AMERICAN in reply to Paul in Mich, 05-03-2004 20:58:43

I was under the impression that China trying to buy up all the metal caused the high metal prices. I guess this was to keep producing since almost anything you look at is made in China. I dont know whats missing in their country that maybe they dont have the natural resorces for this type of operation or not wanting to repeat past mistakes. What China did in the past,I dont know if it was for war or to get into a global economy, but they where producing metal products and they didnt have enough raw material so they went around their country collecting every pot, pan, plow, etc and melding them down to continue production. This came back to bite them because then they couldnt produce food for the masses.

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Matt K

05-04-2004 09:17:14

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Boycott SHELL and buy AMERICAN in reply to Thomas Loecken, 05-04-2004 08:37:03

China is the largest producer of steel in the world (63 million metric tons of raw steel in the first 3 months of 2004). They are also the largest consumer of steel, last year China used 232 million metric tons of finished steel, the world total consumption of finished steel was 864 million metric tons. The rest of Asia (except Japan and CIS) was the 2nd largest consumer, at 147 million metric tons. NAFTA countries (US, Canada, and Mexico) accounted for 131 million metric tons. For more info check out www.worldsteel.org

The US steel industry is still reeling and restructuring after several years of low prices, "dumped" foreign steel, bankruptcies, and mergers. $100 million blast furnace rebuilds were postponed, leading to decreased capacity. Coupled with high energy prices, metallurgical coal field fires, and a weakened dollar, these factors are also part of what is driving the price of steel.

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Mike M

05-04-2004 06:44:03

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Boycott SHELL and buy AMERICAN in reply to Paul in Mich, 05-03-2004 20:58:43

I nominate Paul for president. Lets throw all of those lifelong politians out of the house and senate also and get some real down to earth people in there.

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Paul in Mich

05-04-2004 13:12:02

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Boycott SHELL and buy AMERICAN in reply to Mike M, 05-04-2004 06:44:03

Mike, I could guarantee you one thing, and that is if I were President, I would veto any bill that called for an increase in taxes of any kind. We pay more than enough taxes. What we need is a government that has the guts to curb spending, and start doing away with "Free" handouts to those whose votes we think we so desperately need. I hear politicians from both parties talking about "Free Medical care", "Free education", "Free retirement", Free prescriptions"..... .Folks, NOTHING is free. If the government had money, they could call it "Free", but the government has NO money. Zero, Zip, Nada, except that which it confiscates from its citizens in the form of taxes. We all need to pay our fair share of taxes for national security, roads, police protection, fire protection, and those few things which are for the common good, but nobody should be obligated to pay one penny in taxes which takes it from one person and transfers it to another. Nobody is entitled to entitlements. They are paid for from confiscated funds. I have yet to hear any politician, Rep. or Dem., tell the honest truth about where "Free" entitlements come from. I would also veto any bill that creates one more regulatory bureocracy which stiffles our ability to produce goods and services. Companies are regulated out of business or out of the country. Our Oil industry is regulated out of its ability to produce enough energy, yet we will buy energy from countries who have no such regulations. I believe that we could have a good President if he were willing to serve one term, and do the right thing regardless of how unpopular it may be, but doing the unpopular thing wont get too many people re-elected, so they keep doing the same ole same ole. Pandering to the same ole same ole, and expecting different results. Folks, it isnt our corporations who are the culprits here, its our good friends in government, and it starts at the local level, and works itself all the way to the top.

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Mike M

05-04-2004 18:52:02

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Boycott SHELL and buy AMER in reply to Paul in Mich, 05-04-2004 13:12:02

You got my vote !

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Matt K

05-04-2004 13:43:14

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Boycott SHELL and buy AMER in reply to Paul in Mich, 05-04-2004 13:12:02

Well said, but I can see you'd only be a one term President! There's just to many people out there getting some kind of entitlement from the government. The other problem is the President can't do it alone.

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jim

05-04-2004 16:41:31

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Boycott SHELL and buy in reply to Matt K, 05-04-2004 13:43:14

What we need to do as a nation is to continue to vote the people out of office that are wasting money and eventually they MIGHT get the message. I know, it will take time. We need congressman that are realistic and when money gets tight, they do without personally. When money gets tight with my business, who suffers, the man at the top, me. My employees get a check every week, but if there is no money for me, then I wait another week or 2 or 3, whatever. They begged us to give them that job, we gave it to them and we should also have the right to set their pay scale.These people run allover hells half acre, and we as Americans pay for it, then they get paid God only knows what, plus benefits, and expenses. Why do the elected officails get this kind of treatment and we pay their salaries and get nothing. There is something wrong with this.

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Joe Evans

05-04-2004 05:56:11

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Boycott SHELL and buy AMERICAN in reply to Paul in Mich, 05-03-2004 20:58:43

Amen, Paul. Milton Friedman, Hayek, Ayn Rand, Thomas Sowell, et al. would be proud of you.

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05-03-2004 21:09:47

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Boycott SHELL and buy AMERICAN in reply to Paul in Mich, 05-03-2004 20:58:43

Well said!

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KURT (mi)

05-03-2004 15:53:17

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Re: Boycott SHELL and buy AMERICAN in reply to Outsourced, 05-03-2004 12:23:53

Did you know that oil prices were at their lowest price back just a few years ago when indexed for inflation. Did you know that it is mostly politics that keep us using oil from the middle east. Did you know that many companies outsource jobs to lower wage countries like India, I dont like it but what the heck if the companies are that eager to employ foreigners that have no chance of buying the product they help produce then somebody needs to explain it better, for example if GM shipped the cars and trucks in from overseas then who would buy the cars? Not me I couldnt afford it. because GM took my job and gave to an oriental that gets paid squat. Oh well I am done ranting now.

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Scotty

05-03-2004 14:08:16

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Re: Boycott SHELL and buy AMERICAN in reply to Outsourced, 05-03-2004 12:23:53

The U.S. tax policy should be something like this!
If a company that does business in the U.S. (Based only on its U.S. sales) should get tax deductions based on the percentage of U.S. workers it has!
An example: If a company uses 100% american labor; then they get 100% of their total tax deductions; BUT if a company uses only 60% then they should be able to deduct only 60% of the normal maximum deductions!
This would change the attitude of business considerably!

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Craig

05-03-2004 15:00:23

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Re: Re: Boycott SHELL and buy AMERICAN in reply to Scotty, 05-03-2004 14:08:16

I think this is a fair idea but for one problem. Last I heard less than half of all US companies paid anything in taxes for the '02 tax year. I doubt those that did pay something forked over the 20-30% us working stiffs do.

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snitkawl

05-03-2004 15:48:24

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Re: Re: Re: Boycott SHELL and buy AMERICAN in reply to Craig, 05-03-2004 15:00:23

Taxing business is nuts. Where do you think business gets the money to pay those taxes? When our cowardly elected representatives levy a tax on business they are indirectly taxing the consumer. If they tried to levy the tax on us directly we would scream like a mashed cat, but there has been such an antibusiness climate fostered in this country that most people want to see them taxed more. Then those same people bit-h about higher prices for the goods they buy.

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tlak

05-03-2004 13:58:13

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Re: Boycott SHELL and buy AMERICAN in reply to Outsourced, 05-03-2004 12:23:53

I think you need to boycott congress. I think all these companys that go over seas should have an import tax put on their product like other foriegn(sp) countries. I think the stock market is a big factor. They are always trying to improve the bottom line for investors and now that they cant do this by cooking the books they head offshore.

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dirthog

05-03-2004 13:47:26

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Re: Boycott SHELL and buy AMERICAN in reply to Outsourced, 05-03-2004 12:23:53

And then what next ? Boycott any oil company or any other company for that matter, which use's any foriegn product's to produce or transport gas or oil ? I think none of us would be buying anything anymore.
Problem is this is a new global world, like it or not. What needs to be done is to bring the rest of the world into the 21st century, so all people are earning about the same everywhere for the same job. Thats why human rights in other backwards countrys is such a important issue for the future. Please don't take this personally, but I've spent 25 years working with no job security, health insurance, workers comp, sometimes taking a hit so I can be low bidder on a job just to have a couple bucks come in for the family. So sorry, I'll be so busy trying to scrape out a living that boycotting anyone tomorrow or trying to figure out what is really american anymore will be the farthest thing from my mind. I'm about the proudest american you might ever meet, but I also have to be about the most practical to survive.

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mud

05-03-2004 14:49:39

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Re: Re: Boycott SHELL and buy AMERICAN in reply to dirthog, 05-03-2004 13:47:26

made me think. ain't no real safety net, nor should there be. health care ought to be more reasonable. most of all for the little folks and the old folks of the world.

as for free market, those that produce profit stay.
those that don't don't. it is what made this country. free market place.

i have taken those low bid jobs to pay bills. i know exactly where you are comin from.

i hate to hear about people losing their jobs though. it means hardship. being in construction to keep the farm dream alive has made me understand what setbacks can mean to a family. losing a job is one hill of a setback.

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mike

05-03-2004 13:30:21

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Re: Boycott SHELL and buy AMERICAN in reply to Outsourced, 05-03-2004 12:23:53

So has every other company in america,Why boycot
just one?

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05-03-2004 12:24:50

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Re: Boycott SHELL and buy AMERICAN in reply to Outsourced, 05-03-2004 12:23:53

And dont stop there.

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Really

05-03-2004 13:22:14

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Re: Re: Boycott SHELL and buy AMERICAN in reply to JF, 05-03-2004 12:24:50

Boycott them to the point the company is bankrupt and put everybody outa work.....

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