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Reclaiming R-134a from system

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Shane

05-15-2004 16:36:46




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I had a a/c pump lock up and need to reclaim the freon. Can you do it with a manifold set and a canister by putting the canister in cold water or do you have to use a pump of some sort? Thanks for any advice!




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T_Bone

05-16-2004 12:47:17




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 Re: Reclaiming R-134a from system in reply to Shane, 05-15-2004 16:36:46  
Hi Shane,

To answer your question, Yes you can vapor recover any refrigerant.

You will need to put the receiver in an "ice water bath" then apply heat to the condensor. This method will get you closer to the refrigerant boiling point, -40º.

From the refrigerant boiling point tempature you will see that you will leave some refrigerant behind in the system as a ice water bath is 32º.

As Bob pointed out slow down the vapor tranfer and is more important at the beginning than at the end as vapor pressure drops very fast towards the end of transfer.

Specific gravitity will stop all metal transfer in "saturated vapor" form transfers.

Air is not compressable "when" mixed with a refrigerant and they act as two seperate gases with-in a closed refrigeration system. Knowing this then brings up other considerations when recharging the system.

When the refrigertion system is opened to the atmoshere, then moister ladden air rushes into the system to replace the displacement of the refrigerant. The free moist air will overwhelm the refrigerant desiccant (dryer) and must be removed. Why?

Water mixed with oil creates a acid base. That acid will attack the refrigeration componets over time. Water comes from the moister in the air and the oil comes from adding refrigerant oil for the compressor as well as other system componets.

The recomended procedure for compressor replacement requires three system blow down charges before evacuation. Blow down charge = filling the system with a inert gas then discharging this gas in looped manor. The blow down charge removes moister, air, as well can be used for checking for system leaks (my preferred method). I do not like refrigerant leak detectors as it's very easy to miss small leaks. I NEVER use refrigerant dye for leak testing as the dye is known to plug expansion valves.

Either carbon dioxide or dry nitrogen can be used as the blow down charge. I use dry nitrogen as it's a stable gas, meaning once to tempature nitrogen pressure is very stable. As the nitrogen pressure remains stable, a gauge leak test can be preformed. Any small leak can quickly be detected. Another advantage is dry nitrogen absorbs moister shortening the evacuation time considerably.

After three blow down charges then it's time to evacuate the system with a vaccum pump. At 28.5hg, water starts to boil at 70ºF. At 29.925hg the system is mostly free of any mositer but needs to be held at 29.925hg for 1hr for a completely dry system with blow down charges being used. If no blow down charges are being used, then evacuation time is considerabley more.

It would be cost effective to have the system "properly" recharged after replacing system componets if you don't have the correct equipment.

T_Bone

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John Ne.

05-16-2004 06:18:48




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 Re: Reclaiming R-134a from system in reply to Shane, 05-15-2004 16:36:46  
The R-134a recovery/recycling machines we use in the shop, pump it out, filter it, and hold it in an internal tank for reuse, have the whole manifold gauge, and vacuum pump, all within,the machines cost from 2,000 to 4,000 dollars, and we wear them out, in 2-3 years. When you replace the compressor on your vehicle, be sure to replace the reciever-dryer-filter also, as thats where most of the contaminants are located. John in Nebraska

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david val

05-16-2004 04:05:17




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 Re: Reclaiming R-134a from system in reply to Shane, 05-15-2004 16:36:46  
for a good reclaim, you need a recovery/recycling machine. this machine draws the old refregirant out of the system. to be able to reuse the gas, the machine recycles it by filtration and drying.
of cource shuch a machine is not for one time use. you also need to collect enough gas for the recycling (certainly more then one system fill).
david



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Bob

05-15-2004 21:55:54




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 Re: Reclaiming R-134a from system in reply to Shane, 05-15-2004 16:36:46  
Why recover R-134A? Because it's the LAW. As far as reusing it, I think noncondensable contaminants (air) would be a bigger problem than metal contaminants from the old compressor. If the refrigerant is allowed to flow SLOWLY, as a gas, to a chilled recovery container, no metal particles would move with it, and if the refrigerant to be reused is filtered through a molecular sieve filter, any chance of particle contamination is removed.

Here's a site with some discussion of legal and practical aspects of recovering most of the gas yourself, to a chilled container. REMEMBER... go slow, allowing only a slow flow of gas, not a large flow that will cary refrigerant oil and metal particles with it.

http://www.autofrost.com/epa-facts.txt

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john in la

05-15-2004 18:03:42




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 Re: Reclaiming R-134a from system in reply to Shane, 05-15-2004 16:36:46  
And if you had a compressor lock up their will be metal shavings in the 134. You will need a filter system to filter it or you will destroy your new compressor. Just throw it away. 134 is cheep.



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kyhayman

05-15-2004 16:44:38




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 Re: Reclaiming R-134a from system in reply to Shane, 05-15-2004 16:36:46  
Need a vac pump, but my question is why recover 134a?



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