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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Realistic approaches to high fuel costs !

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Alberta Mike

05-21-2004 18:03:42




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Let's face it, the "boycots" that are discussed are merely pie in the sky sorts of thoughts. They just aren't going to work. Gas is going to get more expensive, no doubt about it. We can complain about government and the oil companies and everything else inbetween and nothing is going to happen. But there are things that each one of us can do do reduce our own individual fuel costs regardless of the pump prices. First, we've got to make a sincere effort to drive less miles every week. For some this is difficult but for many of us, there are ways to do it. We can do things like doubling up on trips (get two or three things done each time), carpooling, walk or use a bicycle for short hauls, staying closer to home for holidays, just staying home instead of going out, etc. For some, public transit is an option that many of us don't even consider. Sure it's slow and inconvenient but we're the ones complaining about driving costs right?

Then, how about buying a cheaper car/truck? Some people seem to get by with a 12-year-old vehicle, how about us? I know it isn't any cheaper to operate but if you've got an extra $500 each month that you're not paying on a new one, gas seems pretty cheap.

Do you really need that $40000 unit you're driving, or that gas-guzzling monster? By the way, SUV owners seem to get blamed for everything these days but the big pickup trucks are worse for fuel consumption. How about a small 4-door family sedan? Sound impossible? We might suprise ourselves if we try it. How about cutting back from 3 vehicles to 2, or from 2 to one? Lots of cost reduction there in insurance and maintenance costs so gas at least would seem cheaper.

How about changing our lifestyles? Go out less to movies, eating out, etc. Maybe even get out a board game and play checkers with the kids instead of some of those things. Eat more meals at home, buy a case of beer instead of paying 5 X's as much for a drink at the local watering hole? Lot's more money in your pocket and gas prices won't seem all that bad.

Our kids (maybe it's us) are also a problem. Do we really need to have our 17-year-old son or daughter driving our family car (or their own car) just to make life easier for them? When was the last time they walked anywhere or took the bus? Is it really necessary for us to have every evening of the week planned out for our youngsters (which includes driving them hither and yon to particupate in things which we feel they absolutely need)?

Well, that's my turn on the soapbox, I'm not doing all of that stuff but I am trying some of it and I feel pretty good doing it and don't feel like I'm missing out on anything.

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49 Cubber!

05-23-2004 05:56:38




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 Re: Realistic approaches to high fuel costs ! in reply to Alberta Mike, 05-21-2004 18:03:42  
"Gas is going to get more expensive, no doubt about it" You got that right!

"Some people seem to get by with a 12-year-old vehicle, how about us? I know it isn't any cheaper to operate but if you've got an extra $500 each month that you're not paying on a new one, gas seems pretty cheap". Last truck I had I had it fro 19 years

"Do you really need that $40000 unit you're driving, or that gas-guzzling monster? By the way, SUV owners seem to get blamed for everything these days but the big pickup trucks are worse for fuel consumption. How about a small 4-door family sedan? Sound impossible?"

true,new my new truck was 38000,but i boguht it used and saved near 12000,with my tradein and down payment.DO I need it,no not really,but Id be giving up a convience,I call haul my family and my tractors at the same time,and since here diesel is cheaper than gas,it works out cheaper for me to drive it an vacation and such,and yes I do need a vacation.

Our kids (maybe it's us) are also a problem. Do we really need to have our 17-year-old son or daughter driving our family car (or their own car) just to make life easier for them? When was the last time they walked anywhere or took the bus? Is it really necessary for us to have every evening of the week planned out for our youngsters (which includes driving them hither and yon to particupate in things which we feel they absolutely need)? Dont have kids that old yet,but we dont have any public tranprtation,and walking to the grocery store for me isnt an option.BOTH of my sons will have a job before they get a car!And will pay there own way with it.My Dad didnt help me,I do not expect I will help my kids go out and drive drunk or hit and kill someone,If they do wrong itll be all on them.I may sound like a nutcase on that,but my Dad taught us some responsibilty by allowing us to screw up from time to time.

Face it,we,re going to have to pay for fuel,like it or not.this isnt 1875 and we have to have it,without fuel,this country,heck the world would shut down.BUT we can all do a little better at saving it.

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JW

05-22-2004 21:06:42




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 Re: Realistic approaches to high fuel costs ! in reply to Alberta Mike, 05-21-2004 18:03:42  
Yipee, it's soapbox time!
First, Carpooling might work providing that you and your neighbors who live a few miles down the road are on the same "I need to go to town and get something" schedule. Walking 30 miles into town is pretty insane considering what ever you get you will have to carry back another 30 miles to home. The bicycle has its shortcomings in reguards of what you can carry and haul. Public transportation is fine if you want to drive to the closest bus stop (30miles) and ride that last mile to Walmart and FeedCo and carry everything by hand back to the bus.
Second, Cheaper cars and trucks would be great if you can pry out all of that computer cra--stuff that doesn't have much longevity.
Third, most people look at their auto need with a "we might need" train of thought. Parents of two or more kids know the value of keep the kids out of each other's reach while in a vehicle. Others want to avoid having to make a second or third trip back into town to get an item that wouldn't fit in the first trip. It is time consuming to dive into town twice for the needed quantity cause only half would fit in the little car.

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Alberta Mike

05-23-2004 05:30:23




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 Re: Re: Realistic approaches to high fuel costs ! in reply to JW, 05-22-2004 21:06:42  
I'm sure everyone would agree with most of your responses, but it still doesn't mean that a guy can't do something to reduce fuel costs. Sounds to me like you're rationalizing a bit. I think we've all got to suck it up somewhat in these situations.



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buickanddeere

05-22-2004 13:14:07




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 Re: Realistic approaches to high fuel costs ! in reply to Alberta Mike, 05-21-2004 18:03:42  
The price for weekly supplies such as the carton of smokes, a 40 of rum,24 of beer, satellite TV and delivered pizza keeps going up . Doesn't seem to prompt too many complaints or cut backs of these necessities. In the long term, this short term greed will back fire on the oil industry/government.



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Ben uk

05-22-2004 11:36:47




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 Re: Realistic approaches to high fuel costs ! in reply to Alberta Mike, 05-21-2004 18:03:42  
he point about SUV's is that most people that have them dont need them

If they are only towing small trailers every 1ce in a while, or occasionally going into a field, they dont need a big powerful 4*4 to waste fuel in - You can do that with an estate.

Most of the big pickups are used for towing real trailers - By people that need them.

Just my opinion, but i hate to see people driving them around - I saw a Land cruiser Amazon in the middle of ondon the other day - pointless.

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Mark

05-22-2004 11:19:25




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 Re: Realistic approaches to high fuel costs ! in reply to Alberta Mike, 05-21-2004 18:03:42  
Everyone can talk boycott,downsize or whatever they want to call it. Things are not going to change until people take some responsibility for their finances.Went past a big mall near me today,and the lot was packed full of SUV's,3/4 ton pickups and big cars. They have to have gas to get there and money to spend when they shop.At least around me,the gas prices aren't keeping anyone from driving,they may grumble a little at the pump,but they still fill their Hummers,Suburbans and Expeditions to drive to the mall or work. The school parking lots are full of new high end Hondas,Pickups,Explorers and Blazers that mom and dad have bought their kids.If this economy goes south with higher interest rates,maybe then you will see some downsizing,but for now as long as people have a line of credit or credit cards,they will keep on driving even though they will still be paying off this years gas purchases in 2020.

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Mac

05-22-2004 11:16:07




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 Re: Realistic approaches to high fuel costs ! in reply to Alberta Mike, 05-21-2004 18:03:42  
Many of us who farm aren't within a hudred miles of public transportation. We commute to live the "good life" away from all that. Just the price you pay. One thing for sure is the immediate local economy will pick up. I'll think twice about trying to save a dollar at Wal Mart and pick up what I need at the Mom and Pop local general store. Not such a bad thing.



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al m

05-22-2004 05:31:32




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 Re: Realistic approaches to high fuel costs ! in reply to Alberta Mike, 05-21-2004 18:03:42  

i have a vw jetta turbo diesel and a 4x8 utility trailer.I down sized my boat to one i can pull with the vw and got rid of my sonoma 4x4 a couple years ago.I can haul more in the trailer than the 4x4 and get 52mpg.only miss the 4x4 a couple times a year at the nastiesty boat launches.My 9.9 outbourd will run half a summer on what my old 70 would burn in a day.I have not changed my lifestyle,just how i get there.
i now fill up about 2 times a mounth instead of every 3 days.
Al

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KURT (mi)

05-22-2004 03:24:31




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 Re: Realistic approaches to high fuel costs ! in reply to Alberta Mike, 05-21-2004 18:03:42  
Fuel prices are higher, and may get higher. I see guys and broads on the freeway driving 75+ MPH. and they have a big truck, Ouch. I bet their MPG is about 12. Lets run some numbers. If I buy a car that gets 10MPG and in 100,000 miles it would cost me $20,000 in gas. (with gas at $2 per gallon, Yowsers! If I have a car that gets 20MPG then the cost of gas drops to $10,000 over 100K miles traveled

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Back to 1964!

05-21-2004 21:16:56




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 Re: Realistic approaches to high fuel costs ! in reply to Alberta Mike, 05-21-2004 18:03:42  
Let's go back to 40 years ago when gas was 5 gallons for a dollar. If I remember right, I was happy with a job that paid $1.00 per hour. So, I worked an hour and bought 5 gallons of gas. Today, here in the U.S.A. most of us can still buy the same 5 gallons with a hour's wage. (We pay a fellow $10.00 / hr. to mow the lawn.)
A fancy new pickup 40 years ago would set you back $2500. Today, for $25,000, you can drive one off the lot that would make that 1964 model pale in comparsion.
So, with this thinking, we are really buying fuel at 1964 prices...using 2004 dollars.

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MF

05-21-2004 19:51:01




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 Re: Realistic approaches to high fuel costs ! in reply to Alberta Mike, 05-21-2004 18:03:42  
Good points, Mike. Here's a question we won't see an answer to for a while. WHY are we(the U.S.) buying oil to place in the ground in old salt mines in LA when oil is at the highest price in years? Do you wait to buy diesel or gas until it's at the highest price ever seen? I DO understand the need for the National Strategic Oil Reserve. But, I DO NOT see the need to build it up to the highest level EVER when the price is so high. This doesn't make economic sense at all. It places an undue burden on oil futures and supply at a time when we don't need it! No, I don't 'blame' the Prez entirely but it "looks mighty suspicious" to me. This is the wrong time to build up our reserves, Buy low- sell high should be the idea. This country needs a "revolution" of economics, NOW!!!

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Kelvin

05-21-2004 20:19:17




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 Re: Re: Realistic approaches to high fuel costs ! in reply to MF, 05-21-2004 19:51:01  
Remember, the good ol' Hill & Billy Administration siphoned off those "Strategic Oil Reserves" 5-6 years ago to head off prices that were lower than we're seeing now.



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Adam B.

05-21-2004 19:48:27




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 Re: Realistic approaches to high fuel costs ! in reply to Alberta Mike, 05-21-2004 18:03:42  
I agree with trucks being as bad or worse than SUV's for fuel consumption. A lot of people are driving trucks now who really don't need them. As a side effect, light trucks are getting that 'sissification' that has been brought up before.

However, switching from 3-4 vehicles to 1 or 2 may not be a good idea, especially if people need a truck frequently enough to warrant owning one. It'd be better for someone to own a few different vehicles that serve different purposes than to choose just one vehicle that will serve all their needs. You're more likely to end up with a person driving a fuel-sucking truck as a commuter vehicle.

There are alternatives in the works. How soon they hit the market depends a lot on public demand. The best explanation of it that I've heard goes like this: Fuel providers won't invest in changing infrastructure and products until there are enough vehicles on the road needing new fuel types to make the investment pay off. Car manufacturers won't make more vehicles that use alternative fuels until they're certain they'll be able to sell enough of the vehicles to make a profit after all the R&D and marketing involved. Consumers aren't likely to buy alternative powered vehicles until the vehicles offer the same performance and convenience as the current options, can be easily refueled, and don't cost a great deal more to buy than gas and diesel vehicles.

In the near future, ethanol blends and bio-diesel fuels should become more readily available and help reduce emissions (not necessarily cost). Hybrids provide more fuel savings, but aren't likely to take over a huge portion of the market. Most focus seems to be on hydrogen as the future fuel. It has great promise for lack of emissions and economy, but the technology will be very expensive for many years.

Fuel-saving practices apply as well:
Properly inflated tires.
Tires in correct alignment.
Regular maintenance (filter changes, proper lubricants, sensors, etc...)
Keep it clean.
Don't haul extra stuff around that you don't need with you.
No aggressive driving.
Use the proper grade of fuel.

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JMS/MN

05-21-2004 19:46:04




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 Re: Realistic approaches to high fuel costs ! in reply to Alberta Mike, 05-21-2004 18:03:42  
If everyone just drove the posted speed limit..... ..... would save maybe 10-15% on fuel, without buying smaller cars, no SUVs, etc.



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TomR Ont.

05-21-2004 19:40:49




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 Re: Realistic approaches to high fuel costs ! in reply to Alberta Mike, 05-21-2004 18:03:42  
I agree The boycots can't and won't work. I understand that when you fill up you don't know what brand you are really buying, if we boycot Shell they will just wholesale it to the other brand service stations. If everyone cuts back on trips and other things that could put us in a recession. As to not buying a new $40,000 vehicle and settle for a small 4-door family sedan, probably about $25,000 the profit margins are much larger on the gas-guzzling monster. Ford wants $100, Million of our tax money NOW. How much will it be if people stop buying the gas-guzzling monsters. What about the other gas-guzzling monster manufactures how many tax $$$ will they want (or WE'RE MOVING).

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Paul Janke

05-21-2004 19:21:28




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 Re: Realistic approaches to high fuel costs ! in reply to Alberta Mike, 05-21-2004 18:03:42  
I disagree with a couple of the things you say. The two of us have three vehicles. One of them is a full sized four wheel drive pickup. It sits most of the time. Instead I drive a 29 MPG 1983 Escort which is paid for, and not worth having full coverage insurance on. Another thing that can save money is a trailer made from a small foreign pickup. It can be pulled behind one of the cars for when something needs to be hauled, but it is light enough to not need the full sized pickup. It also allows the pickup to not be worn out doing nearly no work. Rust, and therefore just plain time, is not a factor here (Montana), so the pickup will wear out rather than disappear into a pile of rust.

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bill wilson

05-22-2004 13:25:00




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 Re: Re: Realistic approaches to high fuel costs ! in reply to Paul Janke, 05-21-2004 19:21:28  

Paul reading the different views and caught your name I will send the cnverter back wih gaylend as there is no seal which threads into the body of the converter and finding one is near impossible I will also send copies of a 1950 ea shop manuel showing toh to service and repair these units Thanks for sending the unit but without the screw in seal assembly it will not do me any good I am looking for a used cheap electric forklift to play with making an electic powere unit for a ford ranger Any of you guys know of ant???

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RAB

05-21-2004 23:35:13




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 Re: Re: Realistic approaches to high fuel costs ! in reply to Paul Janke, 05-21-2004 19:21:28  
Over here in UK I drive a 1.7 litre diesel car. 50 to the gallon (US gallon). It pushes out 60 HP so is fast enough to at least keep up with the traffic. The 120 mph motor (gas 24mpUSg) does very few miles these days - just for fun and when we really need to use both vehicles.
The lorry does the hauling at about 10-12 to your gallon.
Regards, RAB



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bo

05-21-2004 18:37:31




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 Re: Realistic approaches to high fuel costs ! in reply to Alberta Mike, 05-21-2004 18:03:42  
You make good sense but I think you know that that stuff isn't going to happen. People prefer to complain themselves into bankruptsy before doing something about expenditures. Still, you're right.



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Davis In SC

05-21-2004 18:35:17




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 Re: Realistic approaches to high fuel costs ! in reply to Alberta Mike, 05-21-2004 18:03:42  
Mike, you have some good points !!!! Area I live in has 2 large towns about 20 miles apart. It amazes me how many people buy a home in one town & commute to the other. I did that once, years ago, & put over 40,000 miles on a truck in a year.Gas is expensive, but not as bad as the excess wear & tear on a vehicle. Another thing that amazes me is the amount of money people waste on gadgets & junk at the big "discount " stores. Then they complain that they are broke..... . Regards, Davis

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Coloken

05-21-2004 18:19:32




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 Re: Realistic approaches to high fuel costs ! in reply to Alberta Mike, 05-21-2004 18:03:42  
If you will meet with me Tuesday morning at K-mart, I will show you a older grey haired lady that drives her humvee to morning free coffee. NO JOKE!



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D Haase

05-21-2004 19:17:38




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 Re: Re: Realistic approaches to high fuel costs ! in reply to Coloken, 05-21-2004 18:19:32  
I am using E85 in my 2003 Crysler Town & Country van. It is 20 cents a gallion less.In Minnesota we have more ethanol plants then oil wells.Don in MN.



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Jumptrap

05-22-2004 09:08:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Realistic approaches to high fuel cost in reply to D Haase, 05-21-2004 19:17:38  
Fellers,

Let's face it, we are at the mercy of the oil companies and the free enterprise system is going to do anything to stop it. We have a couple choices, drive less and /or get a more efficient vehicle. As for me, I am going to drive until the tank says empty and fill it back up. My '96 Dodge 4x4 truck uses lots of gas, but it's paid for and I can buy gas a lot easier than finance a new 'efficient' truck. I also have my faithful '87 Toyota 4 banger truck with 178,000 miles but still gives 28 mpg...it gets driven a lot more! I think it's time the US makers and importers offer us more diesel vehicles (damn the EPA!).

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