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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

engine won't turn

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Dave

05-28-2004 17:30:26




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My son and I just put new rings on the 8n and now it won't turn over. Any Suggestions?
Our pole barn flooded during the recent rains here in Michigan and everything is super damp so I wondered if moisture could have rusted it together.




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Oliver Puller

05-29-2004 19:28:18




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 Re: engine won't turn in reply to Dave, 05-28-2004 17:30:26  
When you put the motor together did you have the crank turned and checked before you put it in. Or if the pistons are rusted try putting some diesel fuel down into the cylinders sometimes that will unlock a motor.



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Tom in TN

05-28-2004 22:37:27




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 Re: engine won't turn in reply to Dave, 05-28-2004 17:30:26  
Dave,

I have no idea whether or not this applies to an 8N, but when I was about 17 years old (many years ago) I attempted to overhaul a Chevy 6 cylinder engine. When I reinstalled the pistons I didn't pay any attention to insuring that the notch on the front of the pistons was pointing toward the front of the engine. I installed a couple with the notches facing the rear and the rest with the notches facing the front. When I torqued the rod caps, the crankshaft was impossible to turn. If I left the caps a little bit loose, the crank turned, but when I torqued them to the specified torque, the crank would not turn. Eventually, I pulled the head, noticed the notches, turned the pistons, re-torqued the rod caps, and the crank turned okay.

Is it possible that this could be somehow related to your problem?

Good luck,

Tom in TN

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arthur

05-28-2004 21:02:29




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 Re: engine won't turn in reply to Dave, 05-28-2004 17:30:26  
as you assembled the engine did you turn it to get the pistons in if so check the lastone first it could be flash rust also losten all the rods then try to turn good luck



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Farmered

05-28-2004 20:20:30




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 Re: engine won't turn in reply to Dave, 05-28-2004 17:30:26  
Another possibility. Did you install ring expanders from the old set if the new set didn't require them? Ed



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Richard

05-28-2004 19:54:29




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 Re: engine won't turn in reply to Dave, 05-28-2004 17:30:26  
Check to make sure you have the rod caps matched to the right rods & the rod caps not installed in reverse from what they were taken off.



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Nor. Al

05-28-2004 18:03:53




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 Re: engine won't turn in reply to Dave, 05-28-2004 17:30:26  
I feel like it is connecting rod related . I assume that it was working o.k. before you put the new rings in. You probably need to pull oil pan off and check on it.



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Ron

05-28-2004 17:43:08




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 Re: engine won't turn in reply to Dave, 05-28-2004 17:30:26  
Proper assembly procedure is to oil the rings and walls well. So no, flash rust would not be possible.

When you say "won't turn over", exactly what do you mean? Starter won't turn it over or you can't spin the crank by hand with the plugs out? If the latter, you may have a broken ring, egg shaped cylinder, wrong end gap, etc.



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Dave

05-28-2004 18:22:18




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 Re: Re: engine won't turn in reply to Ron, 05-28-2004 17:43:08  
I sure appreciate your responses. What I mean is the starter won't crank it and neither will turning by hand with the plugs out. I guess I was trying to avoid the inevitable. I'll have to tear into it again and investigate further.
Thanks,
Dave



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Ron

05-29-2004 02:43:41




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 Re: Re: Re: engine won't turn in reply to Dave, 05-28-2004 18:22:18  
I rebuild engines. Here's what to do:

Main bearing caps and rod bearing caps must be matchmarked and go back in exactly the same place with the same orientation they had. That is, the entire piston/rod assembly must go back in the same hole, the caps must meet the block or rod exactly as they did before. If you did not do this, the rods will have to be resized and or the block will have to be align bored/honed.

The cylinders must be checked for excessive taper and at a minumum honed per the ring manufacturer's specifications.

All bearings must be clearance checked with Plastigage. All clearances must meet the specifications in the service manual.

Ring end gap must be within spec. Pistons must be installed with a ring compressor or you will likely break some rings.

During reassembly, bearing shells must be properly placed. Bearings get oiled. Torque each main cap in a stepped sequence and then spin the crank by hand. Even in large engines, the crank will spin very freely. If there is any resistance, something is wrong.

Same deal for installing the rods on the crank. Torque each one and spin the crank by hand. Each piston will add a little resistance but the crank will still spin very freely. If there is any real resistance, something is wrong.

Both rod and main bearing bolts must have perfectly clean, undamaged threads and shoulders and be lightly oiled.

Then squirt some oil around each piston and spin the crank by hand a few dozen times to make sure that no rings are broken and that they and the cylinders are very well oiled.

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Slowpoke

05-30-2004 00:21:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: engine won't turn in reply to Ron, 05-29-2004 02:43:41  
Ron, will a Flexi-hone (the one with all the little balls) true up a cylinder that's slightly tapered or egg-shaped? I have a three arm hone with various stones, but was wondering if you think a Flexi-hone is better.
Thanks.



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dirthog

05-29-2004 07:15:20




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: engine won't turn in reply to Ron, 05-29-2004 02:43:41  
Ron,
excellent response, although I have installed lots of pistons without a ring compressor.



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harley1983

05-28-2004 18:43:04




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 Re: Re: Re: engine won't turn in reply to Dave, 05-28-2004 18:22:18  
Another thing that my dad did about thirty years ago, he tightened the rod and main bearings too tight, and the crank couldn't turn. Be sure you torque the bolts not only in the right sequence, but also to the right specs. But like the other guys said, while you have that much down, pull the pistons out and recheck the rings. Bad news sometimes trying to save money by doing it yourself, but then again, that's the only way I can do them too. Good luck, Harley

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roy

06-01-2004 22:59:37




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: engine won't turn in reply to harley1983, 05-28-2004 18:43:04  
Check bearing clearance with plastigauge, A friend of mine was rebuilding a toyota in the mid 70,s. It turned out that they sold him undersized bearings instead of standard, and the crank would not turn when the rod caps were tightened



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