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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Ammeter Problem

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doorguy

06-22-2004 20:48:13




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The ammeter on my IH 460 Utility died the other day. When I put test light on terminals, I had voltage on the incoming side, but none on the other side. I connected the wires together and bypassed the meter and the tractor now has much more power. After some thought, I concluded that the reason for the meter failure and low ignition power was the result of no "shunt" across ammeter. Anyone have any input on this subject? Sorry for long post. Thanks, doorguy

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George Holmes

06-26-2004 20:13:43




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 Re: Ammeter Problem in reply to doorguy, 06-22-2004 20:48:13  
I just rewired my TEA-20 Ferguson and replaced the defunct alternator with a similiar one. The unit had previously been converted t0 12 volt, but sloppy wiring. Now alternator shows charge or around 30 amps at working rpm, about 5 at idle. Is this too high, or Ok..wondering if regulator is working.

Thanks



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Sam#3

06-23-2004 08:02:31




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 Re: Ammeter Problem in reply to doorguy, 06-22-2004 20:48:13  
I'm not sure what "the tractor now has much more power" means but for now I'll think electrical power.
The ampmeter is a series component of the charge circuit. If it opens the battery begins to die. When you bridged the meter you restored the charge circuit and the battery recharged.
Try cleaning the terminals or replace with one of equal rating.
Good Luck
Sam



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Ron

06-23-2004 04:23:49




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 Re: Ammeter Problem in reply to doorguy, 06-22-2004 20:48:13  
I'm not clear what you mean when you say "no shunt". Some ammeters don't use shunts, others have internal shunts, others have external shunts. I can guarantee you that if the ammeter requires a shunt and one is not present the ammeter will fry, sometimes resulting in a fire.

If you are going to replace it, be sure it's an exact replacement.



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txblu

06-23-2004 05:32:21




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 Re: Re: Ammeter Problem in reply to Ron, 06-23-2004 04:23:49  
Interesting comments. Most measurement meters use D'Arsenval meter movements which are made up of an armature of very fine wire in a magnetic field.

I can understand requiring a shunt with this type of metering and the shunt is merely an accurately calibrated piece of material, deliberately very large to prevent any error due to the shunt heating with higher currents. The meter then merely acts as a very low voltage volt meter, measuring the small voltage across the shunt caused by the current thru it.

There is also an iron vane, which is very rugged and could operate on it's own. I don't remember it's physical makeup, but I do remember it is very simple, uses no fine wire but is not as accurate as the former....course you don't need much accuracy in this application.

The ammeter in tractors (that I know) is too small physically to have one internally and I have never seen one external.

So I'm guessing that it's an iron vane movement and once the internal wire opened, if wired normally, all power would be lost except the high current starting circuit from the battery thru starting solenoid to starter. Course you couldn't use it as you had no current path to energize the solenoid when you hit the start button.

Mark

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Ron

06-23-2004 11:07:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Ammeter Problem in reply to txblu, 06-23-2004 05:32:21  
Ammeters and more specifically shunts are designed to deal with some maximum rated current. I'm pretty sure both the resistance and heat loss are built into the size of the shunt. For example, the shunt on a 40A meter is far smaller than one on a 100A meter.

Having no idea what type he has (or had!) on his tractor I gave him an admittedly general answer. But his statement that when he bypassed his ammeter the engine ran better apparently due to more primary power to the coil keyed me into the fact he blew that ammeter and was very lucky. It seems as if it shorted internally and he is very fortunate he didn't experience a fire.

As you know, a properly wired tractor will have all active loads (except the starter of course) run through the ammeter which is driven by the alternator. Assuming the load never exceeds the ammeter's rating, no problem. But I did see the rusty remains of a tractor where the owner replaced the stock 40A alternator with a 100A and added some snowplow type lights. Bingo, the first time the lights got switched on, his tractor promptly burned to the ground.

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txblu

06-24-2004 07:14:34




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Ammeter Problem in reply to Ron, 06-23-2004 11:07:14  
10-4 on shunt size but we are talking about millivolts developed across the shunt.

Can't understand how changing a piece of metal measuring milliohms across the terminals caused his tractor to torch. Gotta be something else.

Now it could be that his wire was not sized adequately for the extra current and he melted insulation which eventually caught fire, but not the shunt. Or he fed this new power thru his ignition switch which also was not sized for the extra load.


Mark

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Ron

06-24-2004 09:06:08




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ammeter Problem in reply to txblu, 06-24-2004 07:14:34  
It's not voltage that's the problem. Shunts are sized by AMPS, just like a circut breaker. They are in series with the load and see the entire 40A or whatever. Run 100A through a 40A ammeter and you instantly destroy it, sometimes resulting in a fire.



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Jon H

06-22-2004 21:18:02




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 Re: Ammeter Problem in reply to doorguy, 06-22-2004 20:48:13  
They do fail on occasion,usually when rain water gets in the case and corrodes the connection between shunt and posts.



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